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E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: October 09, 2018 08:49AM

The farm/corn lobby and their big money just got our politicians to approve year round use of E15 ethanol blend gasoline. Previously it was banned during the summer in many states because of emission concerns.

See [www.nbcnews.com]

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Date: October 09, 2018 08:52AM

Time to write your congress-critter.
An actual letter carries much more weight than an e-mail or a phone call, I've heard.
Makes sense...


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: LeadFootLogan ()
Date: October 09, 2018 09:00AM

What does this mean in terms of engine performance?

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Date: October 09, 2018 09:28AM

LeadFootLogan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does this mean in terms of engine
> performance?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Reduced power and mileage.
Ethanol does not have the same energy content as gasoline.

The Car Hobby political action committee (PAC) is SEMA SAN (SEMA Action Network)



Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: October 09, 2018 09:54AM

Corn is for food, ot cars. I am glad there are a lot of stations here in OK that sell gasoline with no ethanol content. Odd thing is, it is not chain-dependant. Some Shell stations have "pure gas", others have 10% ethanol.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto, Procharger i-1

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Norman, OK

Click for Norman, Oklahoma Forecast

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: thewolfe ()
Date: October 09, 2018 10:42AM

Reduced power? No. There's a reason people tune cars to run on E85 because of the added cooling you can run more boost and timing in a turbocharged vehicle with less risk of detonation which means significant potential power gains. But it comes at the cost of reduced mileage of course. In older cars like ours with carbs you may have to rejet to get proper air/fuel ratio and some rubber bits will wear out faster.

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Date: October 09, 2018 11:00AM

Nate:
Basic FACT: Ethanol contains LESS energy per mass than pure Gasoline.
About ONE THIRD LESS energy per mass.

Can you tune an engine to take advantage of the additional cooling that allows much higher Compression Ratios? Sure, but we are not talking about that.
We are discussing the difference between gasoline and blended ethanol gasoline at the E10 and E15 levels in normal engines, both Corvair and modern Daily Drivers.


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Date: October 09, 2018 11:02AM

If you want to contact your Congressional Representatives,

THIS WEBSITE is a great start.

It provides links to finding them and tips on writing effective communications to them.


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: October 09, 2018 11:38AM

Is the actual measurement of said energy per mass made in British Thermal Units or some other value?

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:01PM

Phil 1/3 is 1/3 no matter the units.

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: thewolfe ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:03PM

Yes it has less energy mass. That's why you have to use more fuel to get the proper air/fuel ratio regardless of the engine, old or new. That doesn't mean your engine is less powerful. All I'm saying is a corvair will not have less power going from e10 to e15 if you jet accordingly. If anything you can gain power by taking advantage of the higher octane by raising compression or advancing timing. But yes if you just put higher percent ethanol gas in your corvair without tuning for the change then you will be running leaner and possibly making slightly less power.

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:03PM

That doesn't answer my question.

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:14PM

However they formulate E15 it won't end up with more octane or at least E10 didn't and the current E15 around here doesn't.

Phil,
True. Here it is in BTUs. [en.wikipedia.org]

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:22PM

Thank you...what got me on that was Tom K ran propane in landspeed.

His record was grandfathered after gasoline and fuel categories split.

F/CBGC is a gasoline only class...propane has lower BTU's that gasoline.


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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:29PM

Propane is 105 motor Octane

Ethanol is 113 octane

from Google;

When you mix 10 percent 113 octane ethanol with 85 octane gasoline it increases the octane two points to the normal 87 octane most consumers use.

So the higher the ethanol content, the higher the octane.

So if a "Pure Gas" fuel is 85 octane

The octane rating for E15 (15% ethanol) is 88 octane

E85 (85% ethanol) is 108 octane.May 17, 2016





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:33PM

If a fuel has less BTUs but will allow you to cram in more of it to make up for more than the difference you are ahead. I've considered building a turbo engine to run on E85 since the station on the corner sells it. I hesitate because building a motor for it would be a sure way to make them quit selling E85.

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:37PM

You can't just assume those numbers from calculations Matt. Gasoline comes in lots of different octanes based on what they put in it. If they take 87 octane E10 and change it to E15 they can adjust the additives so that it still comes out 87. That's what they did when they went to E10 here. The old regular was 87 and the new E10 was 87 also and still is. I'll try to remember to look next time I buy gas and see what the E15 they are selling here is currently.

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:42PM

Those numbers are derived at the Refinery..


"BASE" gasoline is 80 octane... what Richard1 has to buy in Bolivia

I've bought 82 R+M / 2 octane in Idaho





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:47PM

So are you planning to mix your own E15?

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Re: E15 ethanol fuel was just approved.
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: October 09, 2018 12:49PM

Just a small point:

Octane rating is a measure of knock sensitivity or resistance.

It is NOT a measure of energy content or energy density.

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