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pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: October 05, 2018 09:40PM

Can anyone post pictures (not schematics) of how they have mounted starter relays either in their engine compartment or near the starter. I just bought a C2056R relay from Clark's and I have to figure out in advance how to mount it to preserve harmony and balance in the universe.

1966 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: October 06, 2018 07:30AM

One mounted on my '64. Ugh I really need to detail the engine compartment.





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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: October 06, 2018 09:28AM

That looks like a Ford relay. They are cheap at any FLAPS.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: veverlove ()
Date: October 06, 2018 12:02PM

How does this relay affect the starter/charging system? Never quite understood what purpose they serve, as they don't seem to be used anymore. I had one on my old Mustang, when in high school, but merely replaced it when it went bad.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Date: October 06, 2018 03:04PM

A relay feeding the starter activation (purple) wire takes the higher current load off of the wires, connectors and starter switch.
Those wires forward of the starter will just be activating the relay, which requires very little current.

I use a "Bosch Cube" style 30A relay attached above the starter and use the large cable from the battery to apply the +12V current thru the relay to the purple wire/terminal on the solenoid.




Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 01:36PM by MattNall.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: veverlove ()
Date: October 06, 2018 03:28PM

Thank you for the explanation, Dan. So, it takes the high current vs the starter, etc. Simple.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 06, 2018 04:30PM

Vev... it take the load off the

"A relay feeding the starter activation (purple) wire takes the higher current load off of the wires, connectors and IGNITION switch.
Those wires forward of the starter will just be activating the Bosch Cube relay, which requires very little current."

Not the STARTER MOTOR...





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: October 06, 2018 07:32PM

That (C2056R) is a starter relay and not needed on a Corvair, what you need is a smaller relay like Dan posted the diagram of and that only needs to energize the Purple wire going to the starter. The ignition key will energize the small relay.

The full size relay you have will take just as much current to operate as the regular starter relay.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: veverlove ()
Date: October 06, 2018 10:55PM

I mis-spoke earlier and meant starter circuit, not the starter. Write what I think. I'll get it. gg

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 07, 2018 12:44AM

Thanks Ken,
I've argued that point with other people and no one believes me. My Lakewood came with a Ford type relay that will be removed when I get to it.
Has anyone measured the current needed to operate a stock Corvair relay?

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: October 07, 2018 03:39AM

I should have stated, mine came with it. Never gave much thought or saw the need though.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: November 07, 2018 08:53PM

Here's a postscript.

I went ahead an installed it. Here are a few pictures of how I mounted it near the left rear tail light, in the engine compartment.








This location seemed relatively isolated and unlikely to have the cable from the battery positive shorted to chassis by incidental contact.

I know there are different opinions about the effectiveness of this relay, but in my case it made a BIG difference and definitely improved starting. It must be allowing high resistance somewhere in the key switch circuit to be bypassed.

A few other observations:

(1) Clark's directions don't make it clear whether you're cutting the purple wire at the starter or in the engine compartment. I elected to cut it in the engine compartment.

(2) I found it easiest to completely remove the wire harness with the purple wire from the car and do the cutting and crimping of the new connector terminals away from the car.

(3) I didn't have a proper crimping tool to crimp the terminals in the kit to the leads, so I had to improvise with pliers. It can be done, but if you don't crush enough you can have a hard time forcing the terminals into the plastic connector shells.

Terry

1966 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 07, 2018 08:57PM

Terry... that relay works fine! The Bosch style works fine..

Ken is saying that it takes a lot more CURRENT / AMPS than a Bosch style... so why not go low?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: November 08, 2018 10:54AM

I know. I'm late,but I've been running this one for 15 years

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: November 08, 2018 11:02AM

later

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2018 11:08AM by Brizo.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 08, 2018 05:42PM

The relay mod was created to correct "lazy" starter solenoids.

If the ignition switch, wiring, engine bay connector are all good there is no need to add the relay -- however.. If you look at the shop manual you'll find the starter solenoid has a pull in amperage of 42-49 Amps!!! Even with good connections that was pushing the amperage limit of the wiring and contacts.

When the cars were new it was never an issue since that surge amperage lasts less than a second. Once the solenoid is fully engaged the amperage load drops to 12.5 Amps or less.

It takes very little resistance between the key and solenoid (purple wire) to reduce the voltage and cause the solenoid to become reluctant to engage. An oxidized and dirty contact in the bulkhead connector will cause a lot of grief.

Same issue with the RED power wire melting the bulkhead connector due to resistance causing heat (and power loss) at the connection.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2018 05:43PM by 66vairman.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: November 08, 2018 06:45PM

Yes, the "Ford" starter relay coil pulls more current than the "Bosch" relay coil. But, The "Ford" relay coil draws less current then the Delco solenoid, since the "Ford" relay does not also suck in the mechanical linkage to push the starter drive against the ring gear. This is why the "Ford" relay does work in the circuit, and has worked on many a car/truck application of getting by without fixing the problem for years!

I did put the "Ford" relay on my FC van I drove for years. Simple installation compared to fixing it right.....grinning smiley

But the "Bosch" relay would have provided the same results too.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: rowin4 ()
Date: November 08, 2018 08:51PM

One other thing that wasn't mentioned is that you jumper the purple wire to the large terminal on the starter. Then there is only the large wire going to the starter from the Ford style starter relay . Easier install as you can install the large wire before putting in the starter ,then .hook it to the relay.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: rowin4 ()
Date: November 08, 2018 09:11PM

Looking at the pictures again , now I'm confused. I have always connected the positive battery cable to one large side stud of the Ford type relay, the other large stud receives the large cable going to the starter. The purple wire in this case from the ignition switch to the proper small stud on the Ford type relay. The ignition wire [ purple ] that that activates the solenoid on the starter is jumped to the large stud on the starter. This gives you full voltage to the starter solenoid. What confuses me is the pictures show small wire on the large post of the Ford type relays.

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Re: pics of mounted starter relay
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 08, 2018 09:23PM

Rowin.... your hookup is for overheated starters... usally on big block duallies / Motor Homes / trailer towers... and that's the way it is on Ford Starters that have no s-motor mounted solinoids.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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