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Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 01, 2018 05:45PM

I have a '63 monza with 4 speed. When I shift into 1st or reverse, for the first (and only the first) time of the day. there is a vicious grind. This only happens after the first start, for the rest of the day all is good. I, recently had the power train out, seperated the trans and Diff. resealed the trans and diff. Replaced clutch etc. I filled the trans and Diff. with Amsoil manual trans. & transaxle gear lube 75-90W GL-4 as recommended by Richard. I have filled both the trans & the diff until oil began to drain from the fill plugs.
I have also made all adjustments to both the clutch cable (gap between the outboard lever and the bracket is at .497") and the clutch rod per the service manual and the assembly manual.

Only issue I am unsure of, is the assembly manual notes that a blue paint spot painted on the clutch rod must be on top. Of course after 50+ years the paint spot is not there. The service manuals make no mention of a blue paint spot.

There are factory bends to the clutch rod, and I notice that the bow of the rod is IN toward the transmission. Should the bow be Out? and if so, can the rod pin and cotter pin (inside the bell hsg.) be removed with everything assembled in the car? Is there any other suggestions as to the grinding?

Thanks,
Steve D.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: October 01, 2018 06:20PM

Try starting the car with the transmission in gear and the clutch pushed in, then get back with us.

At any time after the first shift into gear can you put the trans into reverse without any grinding?

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: October 01, 2018 06:40PM

vairmech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Try starting the car with the transmission in gear
> and the clutch pushed in, then get back with us.
>
> At any time after the first shift into gear can
> you put the trans into reverse without any
> grinding?

DO make sure the hand brake is on! It's possible the clutch disk is sticking to the flywheel or pressure plate after sitting awhile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2018 06:41PM by 66vairman.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 01, 2018 07:44PM

I like the thought, will try it the morning

Thanks!!

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 02, 2018 02:54PM

Started this morning with the trans in gear and the clutch peddle in. All was good.

I do not think this solves the issue.

Tomorrow I will start in neutral, if the grind is there, I will shut the engine off and restart in gear. I will post a report.

Thanks,
Steve D.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: October 02, 2018 04:57PM

Have you tried shifting into reverse? Does it grind?

I never said that starting the engine with the trans in gear would cure the problem. That was only a troubleshooting step.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 02, 2018 05:22PM

ranger372 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a '63 monza with 4 speed. When I shift into
> 1st or reverse, for the first (and only the first)
> time of the day. there is a vicious grind.
> Thanks,
> Steve D.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 03, 2018 02:59PM

Started the car this morning, with trans in neutral, Tried to shift into reverse = grind, tried to shift into first = grind. I then shut engine off, shifted into reverse, restarted and all good for the rest of the day. I'm stumped.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 03, 2018 03:04PM

Ken is leading you in the right direction. The disk is probably (barely) sticking to the flywheel. Once it's broken loose it doesn't stick again until it sits a while. I would just drive it. It will probably resolve it's self after a while. If not it isn't hurting anything.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: moomba32 ()
Date: October 03, 2018 04:43PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken is leading you in the right direction. The
> disk is probably (barely) sticking to the
> flywheel. Once it's broken loose it doesn't stick
> again until it sits a while. I would just drive
> it. It will probably resolve it's self after a
> while. If not it isn't hurting anything.

Sounds possible. When I first got my tractor if I parked it too long the clutch stuck to the pressure plate, sometimes hard enough I had to drive it against a tree to break it loose, I started parking it with a board holding the clutch down. It hasn't stuck in years now and it's seldom driven now, no more using the board either.

Don Marlowe
66 Monza 2Dr 140/pg
64 Spyder convertible now, 110/pg
Eutawville SC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2018 04:46PM by moomba32.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: CoCoCo ()
Date: October 04, 2018 12:05PM

And if you find that you've already started the motor and don't want to do it again, you could try shifting into 3rd or 4th first, then back into 1st or reverse and see if that stops things.
That's assuming that it does not grind in second and third too!

Paul

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 04, 2018 01:36PM

Haven't tried going into 2,3 or forth from the get go.

OK, went into the garage and tried 2,3 and 4th let out the clutch in 2nd and car moves forward. When trying to go into rev. or 1st, grind is still there.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 04, 2018 01:49PM

1. Clutch disc is sticking to flywheel or pressure plate.
2. Clutch cable need to be shortened slightly.
3. Pilot bushing it too tight to the mainshaft.

#1 and #3 will no doubt cure themselves with driving.
#2 Probably won't


'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: October 04, 2018 02:50PM

I am so happy I read this!! My car grinds occasionally into reverse and first, and I thought it was some kind of safety issue built into the car regarding RPMs--that is, you can't go into those gears over 1000rpm. This makes more sense and I'm grateful for the tips. I will use them on my LM.

Eric C. Player
Porterville, CA
- National Member, CORSA
- Member: Central Coast CORSA & South Coast CORSA
Former Member: Vintage CORSA Orange County. Member, ISA (Int. Screenwriter's Assn.), SAG Eligible, and Producer's Guild Aspirant


* Then: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red/1965 Monza 110 Purple/
1967 Monza 140 Red/1966 500 110 Black/1965 Monza 110 Yellow
* Now: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo Project. Blue, Blue/Beige interior.



"Chevrolet's Corvair was a maverick machine, a rear-engined renegade born out of spite and genius." -- Sports Car Graphic, August 1969

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 04, 2018 03:45PM

I did replace the clutch cable and adjusted the cable to where the distance between the outer lever and the trans. mounting brk't. was point 47. Per the 62-63 shop manual this measurement should be 3/8"-5/8". I am right in the middle.

Tomorrow Morning before starting I will shorten the cable by one full turn. Without looking at it right now, I do believe this will shrink that measurement slightly, still within spec.

Thanks,
Steve D.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 05, 2018 09:17AM

I made the adjustment to the clutch cable this morning, shortened the cable by one revolution of the clevis. Started the car in neutral and attempted to shift into 1st and reverse, a slight grind (not viscous). I then adjusted another 1/2 revolution, no change to the slight grind. Then another 1/2 turn. grind was gone.

Measurement is now .56 which is within spec of 3/8"-5/8" (5/8"=.625)

I've made NO adjustment to the clutch rod.

Will start the car tomorrow morning, I do think this may have solved the issue. I will keep the group posted.

Thanks,
Steve D.

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 05, 2018 10:48AM

It was always tough and slightly subjective to measure that "Freeplay" at the top of the pedal most manuals spoke of. I get a better "feel" for it by seeing where in the pedal stroke while driving can I shift the transmission. While lightly cruising up or down through the gears, I see at what pedal position I can select what gear I'm headed towards. Somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 travel has served me well. If you almost have go to the floor, you're close to having the issues you're describing. And no, I'm not replacing throw out bearings every 15,000 miles either. thumbs up

'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 06, 2018 07:02AM

I copied below a discussion on clutch discs recently. I'm so ashamed I misspelled thickness. I think my k key is lazy.
If disc is the problem, you can adjust for maximum throw and readjust when it wears down a bit. Someone else posted with the same thick disc problem from another source.

Clutch Disc Thicness
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: August 01, 2018 07:48AM

I've been getting clutch discs relined at a local shop with good results. He resurfaces flywheels and pressure plates too.
I had a EM yesterday that would not fully release so it wouldn't go into Reverse without grinding.
I took it apart and the disc was about .335 thick with a good deal of Marcel spring action. We looked at a few others and the Marcel seemed to be about the same.
In reading the Tech Guide it sounds like .330 is about the upper end and .300 about the lower end.
When laying the flywheel, disc and pressure plate together, it had about .140 space between the flywheel and pressure plate measured with drill bits. I was thinking .125 should be more like it with .100 the lower limit.
I fixed it by using .020 shims between the pressure plate and flywheel. Of course I don't want to be doing that very often.
I'm wondering if there's a source for lining material. The clutch guy says what he has is standard.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Transmission Grind
Posted by: ranger372 ()
Date: October 07, 2018 09:48AM

Started the car this morning with the trans in neutral. Shifted into 1st perfectly. Shifted into reverse, a slight grind, not enough of a grind that would do damage. I may make a slight adjustment to the clutch cable or the grind may work it self out as new components ie: clutch, throw-out brg., pressure plate, flywheel, clutch cable etc are broken in.

Thank You to all for their input and suggestions.
Steve D.
'63 Monza conv't
'65 Monza project

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