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Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: squirrel ()
Date: October 01, 2018 07:57AM

Hi, I played with a 63 Monza last year, took it on a trip, sold it to my brother David, and promptly forgot about Corvairs. But....since my brother has it now, I get reminded. Anyways, he was visiting early in the summer, when we were working on his LaSalle hearse, and the Corvair had started making an engine noise. We found it was on the driver side bank, a valvetrain noise, and pulling the valve cover revealed that the #6 exhaust spring was sticking out a bit far, and was kind of loose and easy to wiggle sideways more than it ought to have been. He decided not to drive it the 75 miles home, and risk things coming apart, so the car sat all summer at my place, while I finished building my Barracuda "almost funny" car...but that's a whole nuther story. Now that Drag Week is over, I finally have time to work on the Corvair.

David had found a free replacement engine, he thought it was a 1964, based on one of the head casting numbers. This engine had been sitting a while, and was missing most of the tin, accessories, etc. I hauled it down here and took it apart. It has a V stamp, which is 63-64 van, but the head on the driver side is a 63 102 casting number (yay!) and the pass side head was the 64 110 number. The pass side had been worked on more recently, and whoever did the work made a mess....I've never seen oil ring rails stacked up and used as a second compression ring?!?!? before, and two of the jugs had big chunks knocked out of them. So this engine was not so good, as a complete engine, but it had some possibly useable parts. The crank mic's good, and the bearings have some scratches and embedded particles, but otherwise look good. The #4 rod had been replaced with a #3 rod, the rod bearings were all date coded 1972.

I pulled the engine out of the car Saturday, and took it apart. It had over 5000 miles since I had got it running, then done the $25 ring job. The thing never had much oil pressure, the light would come on consistently when hot in drive at a stop. I had a gauge on it for a little while at first, but it was too depressing, so I removed it. So, I was quite surprised at how nice most of the parts inside looked. The oil pump looks unworn, and the crank looks mostly OK. The rod bearings had been replaced previously, and all had been worn to the copper layer in the center third, on the upper half. The case apparently had never been split before, all the mains were GM STD bearings, and they looked pretty good--although since they were not plated, it was hard to tell for sure. I decided to do the quick check of the thickness with a caliper, and all but the front one are worn a few thousandths. The rod bearings also show a couple thousandths wear, where the plating is worn off. When I removed the pistons, I left them in the jugs, except for #1, which has some rust in the jug, which I didn't fix the first time around.

So, in keeping with the theme of not spending any money on this motor, I'm thinking about buying a gasket set, and using the bearings and one head and one jug from the "new" engine, and putting it all back together again. Follow along...have fun...and yes, heckling is expected, and welcome!

Jim Forbes.......63 Monza coupe......Sierra Vista, AZ


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 01, 2018 08:11AM

Go for it!! I luv this kind of "repair"





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Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
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..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: roger65180 ()
Date: October 01, 2018 09:57AM

make sure you check the used pistons for skirt cracks just below the oil control ring also make sure you are not mixing 63 and 64 pistons , the bore is the same but not the wrist pin height, short stroke 63 long stroke 64 the block number /letter is the same V, check crank number 8409 is long stroke

Roger R
Madison Wi
62 ct pg turbo
65intercooled 180 4sp,autocrosser
62 Rampy

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: squirrel ()
Date: October 01, 2018 10:07AM

thanks, one of the first things I did was to check the stroke, both of the engines are indeed from 1963, short stroke.

The piston ring thickness gives it away, too....164 motors use very thing piston rings.

Jim Forbes.......63 Monza coupe......Sierra Vista, AZ


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 03, 2018 05:15AM

I don't think EM pistons have as much possibility for cracking at the top ring groove that LM pistons do.
Spending a lot of money and replacing everything in sight is not the only way to do things.
Freshening up and fixing what's broken is certainly what I did for a long time when commuting 70 miles a day with Corvairs. Perhaps I was penny wise and pound foolish but my time was free.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: squirrel ()
Date: October 03, 2018 07:12PM

Finally starting assembly. The good used bearings...the timing marks...torquing the first rod nuts, using proper modern tools...

The crank spins nicely. I didn't check the clearance, but hey, it's gotta be better, since the "new" bearings are a little bit thicker!

Jim Forbes.......63 Monza coupe......Sierra Vista, AZ


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 03, 2018 07:38PM

It will be fine!





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Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: squirrel ()
Date: October 05, 2018 08:18PM

A few more pictures.























Jim Forbes.......63 Monza coupe......Sierra Vista, AZ


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: squirrel ()
Date: October 05, 2018 08:24PM

Anyways...I finished putting the engine back together, the only new parts were the gaskets, and the oil. And filter...which is a Fram because my brother still had it from the box of parts that came with the car when I bought it last year.

I was able to get all the tin back on, with only a couple missing screws. I also had to put a few thread inserts into the "new" head where the generator bolts on.

The power unit went back into the car without too much trouble. After reconnecting everything and putting it back on the ground, it fired right up first try. I did have to play with the idle and put the timing light on it, but it was not very far off.

I went for a drive, about 25 miles, no leaks from the engine yet. The trans still has a few drips, because I didn't replace any seals on it...that's a project for a later day.

It doesn't have that faint heavy knocking sound, that it had before, all the time. I guess the "new" bearings are an improvement. I did not put a gage on the engine in the car, so I don't know if the pressure is better, I guess we'll see if the light comes on when it gets hot and we get the idle speed down where it belongs again.

Jim Forbes.......63 Monza coupe......Sierra Vista, AZ


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 05, 2018 10:37PM

Suweeeeet!
thumbs upthumbs up

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: October 06, 2018 03:51AM

I did a similar re-ring and bearing on my '65 a couple of winters ago, although I neglected to do the mains because I didn't feel like splitting the case. I only drive it a thousand miles a year, so why not?

By the way, good job on the Barracuda, Jim...that was a fun one to follow!

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 06, 2018 06:39AM

You're losing cooling air through the missing dipstick tube grommet.
I hope you blocked off the fresh air hole in the right front of the top shroud.
I'm not fond of rubber gas hoses in the engine compartment, especially next to the sparking generator. It's also more difficult for a mechanical pump to suck uphill and through the filter chamber.
I don't mean to be critical, I just see things, I like what you're doing.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: squirrel ()
Date: October 06, 2018 07:36AM

Thanks. There are several air leaks, this car needs a lot of money spent on it to make it anywhere close to "right". But the whole idea is to keep one on the road, for frequent use, by doing just enough to make it work well and be mostly reliable.

Yes, there is a cover plate over the heater duct hole on the front of the shroud.

Rubber fuel lines are a constant problem, until we finally spend the extra $$$ to buy EFI compatible hose, and some good clamps. This isn't the only old car I get to deal with that, on. The 64 Volvo sat for a few months over the summer while I was working on the Barracuda, and when I took it for a little drive it was spewing quite a bit of fuel out of several places under the hood. I tightened the clamps, and it stopped. But it needs work, too. Then there's my old Chevy truck, and my wife's Dart...and my brother's 58 Brookwood, and his LaSalle. It never ends.

Jim Forbes.......63 Monza coupe......Sierra Vista, AZ


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: squirrel ()
Date: October 06, 2018 09:28PM

drove the car about 100 miles, still not leaking oil....but there is oil in it...huh...

smiling bouncing smiley

Jim Forbes.......63 Monza coupe......Sierra Vista, AZ


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 06, 2018 10:13PM

You are a good mechanic!!! Vairs don't have to leak.... mine are both dry...





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Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 07, 2018 08:17AM

squirrel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks. There are several air leaks, this car
> needs a lot of money spent on it to make it
> anywhere close to "right".
------------------------------------------------------

This car / engine doesn't need to be "Right" imo

Roof Flashing works great for cutting and making pieces to plug the HOT AIR Recirc holes and anyhing else that lets hot air back into the top of the engine..

Hardware store will have Large rubber grommet for Dipstick.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 07, 2018 08:29AM

MattNall Wrote:
> This car / engine doesn't need to be "Right" imo
> Hardware store will have Large rubber grommet for
> Dipstick.
An upper shock mount bushing is a good fit if it's not too mooshed out.

'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Date: October 07, 2018 10:09AM

Squirrel, are you the guy who did lemons in the vair, and previously did it in an Edsel?

Secondly, is that a hockey scoreboard?

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered - Rust in Progress


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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: October 07, 2018 10:20AM

This is why I wish I were handier than I am.

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Re: Cheap engine overhaul
Posted by: MoxyRamone ()
Date: October 07, 2018 04:24PM

I love this beyond words. Totally my style... "Low Budget!" I am going to end up doing something very similar with my whipped 110. Thank you so much for posting this!

John Carver
Landrum, South Carolina

1964 Monza Convertible

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