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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: November 20, 2018 12:06PM

Am I reading the screen correctly, that the input signal for the vr pickup can be synced in the software rather than having to manually sync the reluctor to the pickup somewhere after 60 deg BTDC?

What units is the delay in?

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: November 20, 2018 06:22PM

toms73novass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am I reading the screen correctly, that the input signal for the vr pickup can be synced in the
> software rather than having to manually sync the reluctor to the pickup somewhere after 60 deg BTDC?
>
> What units is the delay in?

Have not asked that question but certainly will now.

Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida


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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: November 21, 2018 05:54AM

PressurizedPancake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don’t know if you can write to this system on the fly, but if you can, at idle, keep adding one degree at a time without moving the butterfly position. If you pick up RPM with each degree,
> there’s torque available, if RPM stays flat or slows down you have too much ignition timing.

Calibrated the 1000rpm steady state as reference. See below as plotted in 2* increments.



Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida


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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Date: November 21, 2018 03:08PM

Nice work!!! Well done, sir!

Now do that for every speed/load point, and you'll have a calibration!winking smiley

Is what I'm saying making sense, then? Are you running any type of AFR/O2 sensor to look at? Ideally you would plot that with this and watch the change as well.

Looks like you are about where you want to be with what you've been running at 1000. Now if you can correlate your SafeGuard/calibrated ear, you'll be in be in business.

One of the things I like to do while doing knock control calibration is to put a microphone in the dyno and wear a headset with volume control, and listen to see where audible knock correlates with what I'm reading in cylinder. You can be doing slight piston damage and not hear it audibly, especially if it is doing it in a prolonged situation, like a road load or a medium grade. If you have a way to put a mic back in the engine bay and pipe it into a headset or the car radio, it could be another easy tool to give you insight as to what your engine is trying to tell you.

Since you don't have individual cylinder control of either fuel or spark, you have to calibrate to your worst cylinder, so spark plug check/cylinder inspection with a borescope are in order if you are going to push things out to the edge. Borescopes are getting really reasonable now, at least stuff that'll fit in our big spark plug holes. There's even USB supported stuff that you can plug into your laptop or smartphone and scope around, even take pictures. If you inspect your cylinders after an especially hard audible set of hits, you'll see the peppering on the piston and chamber, and the plug too, for that matter. Learn how to read plugs if you already don't know how, they're free, other than the time it takes to get at them. Get a good lighted, magnified plug inspection light and look at them, you'll learn a lot.

I'm happy for you, you are kicking butt with this thing, keep up the good work and don't get greedy!smileys with beer

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're unique, just like everyone else...

Johnny B
Central WI

Wife's '68, 3.0L, twin-screw compressor and fuel injected in the works...

Project Pressurized Pancake


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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: November 21, 2018 06:23PM

Thanks for the encouragement and tuning tips MR Pancake.

Yessir, I am just finishing the installation of an AEM AFR/O2 sensor and will be tracking those readings while making any timing changes. Now I need to calibrate a few more low end RPM settings and build that “stall saver”

Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2018 06:26PM by kmart356.

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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Date: November 21, 2018 06:58PM

Well, if it’s not obvious, I kinda live for this stuff, and I like seeing people learn how to do things themselves, especially when they’re going off the beaten path. It takes guts to do things differently, and it takes research and common sense to do it differently and successfully.

You’re putting all the right tools in place and are truly trying to understand how this all works and generate processes to get your desired end result, and maybe have some fun along the way!

I’ve meant to ask, does the Black Box have any logging capability? That would also speed up the process for you if you could go run through the gears, or pull a long hill at different throttle positions to fill in your spark table, and if you’re running your AFR meter. You may be best off using a GoPro or ReplayXD, recording your AFR, spark, MAP, RPM, and SafeGuard all at once to tune your rocket. Not as nice as all that data in an Excel spreadsheet or Uniplot graph, but still way better than seat of the pants. Data is your friend if you embrace it and learn what it’s telling you.

Thanks for sharing your journey and results, the Corvair community will be better for it. I hope to do something similar with the screwcharged 3L version in 2019.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're unique, just like everyone else...

Johnny B
Central WI

Wife's '68, 3.0L, twin-screw compressor and fuel injected in the works...

Project Pressurized Pancake


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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: November 21, 2018 07:27PM

This weekend I think I'll be buying the blackbox it is 10% off with GIVINGTHANKS

However, I'm going to have to wait till next spring to get it up and running, damn snow!!!!

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Date: November 21, 2018 08:07PM

Super Chevy SB4 article

If you’d like some insight into my work... I’m Calibration Lead Tech and I do engine development on 2-stroke, 4-stroke, supercharged, turbocharged, and naturally aspirated engines. And they pay me!grinning smiley

What a fun project that was! I’m pretty lucky to do what I love. It’s not every day you get to use a magazine feature car as your office. I spent about 6 tanks worth of fuel in there, and I don’t know how many in our mid-engine Ultimate GTR.

Roadster Shop SB4 powered 66 Chevelle

This will give some insight as to how we test our product. This was one of my test engines that I set up for this video. I had to leave for the day, so that’s my boss running it. You can see all the individual maps open with the red “bouncing ball” to show where it is running in each map. There’s a ton of work that goes into a production cal. We’ve since developed this engine out to 1750 HP/2000 Lb-ft of torque.

Dyno Mighty

Hopefully this gives you an idea of where I’m coming from.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're unique, just like everyone else...

Johnny B
Central WI

Wife's '68, 3.0L, twin-screw compressor and fuel injected in the works...

Project Pressurized Pancake


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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: November 22, 2018 06:54AM

Can you get me a deal on the DOHC LS7 ? grinning smiley

What an awesome engine!


You have MY dream job! thumbs up

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2018 06:57AM by toms73novass.

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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: November 25, 2018 01:54PM

1st to answer a question from Tom.

toms73novass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am I reading the screen correctly, that the input signal for the vr pickup can be synced in the software rather than having to manually sync the reluctor to the pickup somewhere after 60 deg BTDC?
> What units is the delay in?

What is the VR Input delay setting used for?

Quote
CB Performance says-
High RPM timing match. So if you rev the engine and the timing commanded doesn't match the timing on the engine. This is where it's adjusted.

Next is the latest timing map.

This timing map includes "stall saver" (timing increase just below idle rpm) highlighted in yellow as well as low rpm timing reductions for no run on at shutoff. I only changed the RPM ordinates and timing values on low end to keep the gains I have made in mid-range. This approach seemed to be just a but smoother when taking off from stops.

Black Box Histogram display tells me I hit 10psi peak boost... that's good for the few times I was able to "pin it".smoking smiley ***I was a bit distracted peeking over at the AEM A/F gauge...



Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida


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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: December 02, 2018 02:24PM

Black Box Timing version 1.0 - tested today and approved! Very pleased with these results and so glad I converted to front disc brakes. grinning smiley

Idle steady @ 1000rpm. Stall saver implemented for smooth departures. Low-mid range strong and boost performance even better with a few 11psi runs on the backroads near the house.

Observed AFRs: Idle (15.5) - Light Load (13.9) - Med Load (13.3) - Boost (11.5)

The chart below the timing table is the timing retard curve plotted Degrees vs. Boost PSI. The commented areas demonstrate two issues resolved by having a programmable timing curve. The Dale A/R + Safeguard could not attenuate the timing fast enough at the onset of boost - no more ping with new timing. At the higher boost levels, power was being left on the table due to too much timing retard - faster spooling/stronger boost performance with new timing.






Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida


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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: December 03, 2018 02:32PM

Good Stuff!!!

Buy the way I joined the club, or drank the kool-aid grinning smiley



-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: Turbo Ignition Timing - a programmable module
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: December 04, 2018 08:34AM

I missed the black Friday sale. If anyone hats of another sale please post. I've been really enjoying all the info on this thread. Thanks!

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