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Starter Question
Posted by: Lalkie ()
Date: September 09, 2018 02:00PM

I have been having problems with the starter on my corsa and put in another corvair starter I had on the shelf. It did not engage properly and I took it out and apart and found a spring between the armature winding and the bendix that keeps the bendix from going back against the armature winding. I have never seen a starter with this spring. I don't have a way to attach a picture. Has anyone seen a starter with this spring. Larry

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 09, 2018 02:06PM

Nope! Although I've heard of it..

Just went thru 4 of mine... nothing like that.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: September 09, 2018 02:23PM

The spring is common for starters in PG cars. Nothing
is wrong with having the spring in any of the starters.

It is a 'starter drive' NOT a bendix.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2018 02:24PM by steve c goodman.

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: Lalkie ()
Date: September 09, 2018 07:37PM

What is the purpose of the spring?


Larry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2018 07:53PM by MattNall.

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: September 09, 2018 08:43PM

Steve G. is correct, not surprisingly.

Yes Clark's catalog calls the one way DELCO "sprag" clutch and gear a Bendix and they are INCORRECT.

The nose cone on the starter for PG Corvairs had a rubber "doughnut" seal that the "sprag" clutch housing rested against while the starter was no operating. This was done because the open PG bell housing (to air cool the torque converter) allowed dirt and water to get on the starter drive. The rubber doughnut seal kept the dirt and water from getting into the starter itself.

The extra spring (originally on PG starters only) is thought to help the sprag clutch housing not get stuck to the seal, or when the sprag clutch/gear retracted the spring damped the impact of the sprag clutch housing against the seal. Logical and probably both are correct.

Note the nose cone casting was the same as non-PG cars AFAIK, it just had a rubber seal installed for the PG cars. I've only seen one nose cone with the seal intact and the rubber was hard from age and heat.

I'm not aware of anybody making a replacement seal.

This past year somebody posted about a starter they removed from their PG Corvair that was full of dirt - they drove down a dirt road to get home and the starter nose cone had no seal in it. So it would seem under certain conditions the seal is needed on PG cars. That and we know GM would not have spent money adding a seal if it wasn't needed.

If I recall correctly - The 65 shop manual does not show the PG starter with the seal and extra spring, only the manual transmission starter configuration.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2018 08:47PM by 66vairman.

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 09, 2018 09:24PM

I've only got one nosecone with the seal... but handled many over the years.... but do not remember the extra spring..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: September 09, 2018 09:47PM

Just in general--How long does the average starter last before it needs to be replaced?

Eric C. Player
Porterville, CA
- National Member, CORSA
- Member: Central Coast CORSA & South Coast CORSA
Former Member: Vintage CORSA Orange County. Member, ISA (Int. Screenwriter's Assn.), SAG Eligible, and Producer's Guild Aspirant


* Then: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red/1965 Monza 110 Purple/
1967 Monza 140 Red/1966 500 110 Black/1965 Monza 110 Yellow
* Now: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo Project. Blue, Blue/Beige interior.



"Chevrolet's Corvair was a maverick machine, a rear-engined renegade born out of spite and genius." -- Sports Car Graphic, August 1969

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: September 09, 2018 09:53PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've only got one nosecone with the seal... but
> handled many over the years.... but do not
> remember the extra spring..

Mike Dawson wrote an article that the 60 & 61 shop manuals showed the extra "assist spring", but it was omitted in the 65 shop manual. He states there were other errors in the 65 starter illustration suggesting it may not have been a Corvair starter illustration.

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: September 10, 2018 01:07AM

playerpage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just in general--How long does the average starter
> last before it needs to be replaced?


Depends on what you mean by replace?

Starters can be rebuilt until the “windings” (cannot remember correct term) fail.

I have an original starter (to the car) that has had the starter drive and lever replaced a few times - the solenoid and bushings maybe once.

The first time I had starter drive fail ( before I knew anything about Corvairs), the dealer asked if I wanted a rebuilt starter or the drive replaced. I could not figure out the difference - other than price.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 01:10AM by RobertC.

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: September 10, 2018 08:52AM

As Robert C. said.

BTW - the starter is not designed for continuous use. I forgot the specific limit and where Chevrolet stated it, but ten seconds is about the maximum engagement time before the starter will begin to overheat. Over heating a starter will destroy the wiring insulation and then it's not worth repairing.

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: CoCoCo ()
Date: September 11, 2018 12:12AM

I had 6 years and 40k miles on mine when I sold it, and it worked perfectly well the same as the first day I put it in.
Not sure how long it lasted for the new owner, and maybe new versions don't last as long as the originals (like so many other parts these days) but you should be able to expect what I got at the very least.

So given "normal daily use" and not living in a salty or wet-n-salty area, maybe 75-100k miles or 10 years?
I'm sure there are those that get less. And some that get more. But that's my guesstimapproximation of your answer.

Paul

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: Lalkie ()
Date: September 11, 2018 09:24AM

Thanks for the response. I think vairman i accurate. I am putting the starter in a 4 speed but i think i will leave the spring in to see how it works. I did not see a rubber washer. I appreciate the help. Thanks Larry

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: September 11, 2018 09:40AM

Lalkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the response. I think vairman i
> accurate. I am putting the starter in a 4 speed
> but i think i will leave the spring in to see how
> it works. I did not see a rubber washer. I
> appreciate the help. Thanks Larry

A couple of years ago Mike Dawson noted that some folks had issues with NEW solenoids that did not work well. He isolated the problem to the fact the owners used the OLD solenoid return spring in the new solenoid instead of the "weaker" (lower tension) spring that came with the new solenoid. When he weighed the new vs. old solenoid the new one was lighter. He concluded the new had less copper (fewer windings) and the "weaker" spring was supplied to compensate for the weaker magenetic field. Installing the new "weaker" spring fixed the issues.

I have NOT confirmed any of this, but it sounds like something off shore manufactures do to cut costs.

I recall Mike also noted the extra starter armature spring also helped compensate for the "new" solenoid issue. I think Steve Goodman also noted the extra "helper" spring on the starter armature improved starter operation. Keep in mind this information is from memory so it should be taken as such.

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Re: Starter Question
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: September 11, 2018 09:44AM

The starter in my 1962 Chevrolet BelAir is original to the car, and when I had it "freshened" last winter, the rebuilder said that it appeared that it had never been worked on before. It needed a new starter drive, turn the armature, installed new brushes, and replaced the front and rear bushings. The car has 70K on it, and the rings were worn out from poor maintenance by the previous owner. I don't think that he ever changed engine oil, but he sure did keep it well polished.

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