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Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: tryan ()
Date: August 31, 2018 05:35PM

I bought a 1965 Monza with 110 4 speed. 82K miles. Ran very well but leaked oil. Pulled the power pack and replaced virtually all the seals (Clark’s C6365 kit) Installed the engine and all the leaks were eliminated except for a slight leak in the bell housing crank seal. Asked a corvair mechanic and he said that I may have gotten a bad seal or a rough spot on the crank. Happens sometimes. So I pulled the power pack again and replace the bell housing seal again (C492 and C493) . Old seal looked perfect, same as the new one I was putting in. The crank that touched the seal looked perfect too. Used sealant on the bolts again as recommended and torqued all bolts to specs. Installed the power pack and to my delight no leaks. Perfect. Drove it 100 miles, 200 miles 300 hundred miles. Not a drop. Perfect but then at about 500 miles it starting leaking worse than ever from the bell housing. Basically a 12 inch puddle in her parking spot after a week. Looks like the bell housing seal again. Anybody have an idea what would cause this. Getting pretty tired of pulling the power pack. Should I try a viton bell housing seal (C493V)? Thanks for your anticipated input.

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 31, 2018 05:57PM

Was the last seal Red / orange / brown?

Those are Viton.... few have good luck with them..

Get the old rubber one...

If yours was black.. get a "Speedy sleeve" to enlarge and renew the sealing surface...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: August 31, 2018 06:04PM

Could also be a input shaft seal in the diff leaking?







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: August 31, 2018 06:23PM

You might try polishing the crank hub surface. I have had the same story you did using the original style seal, then the viton seal, then back to the original type, then polishing the crank hub surface with 600 grit sandpaper and
wd-40. All of the seals leaked except for this last attempt with the super extra fine polishing... bone dry still after 1000 miles(!). Same crank, bell housing and all. I think I remembered to oil both the seal surface and hub with
engine oil after the polishing before assembly but other than that I cant think of anything else that I did different.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: August 31, 2018 06:58PM

Did you seal the bolts holding the bellhousing to the engine block. Sometimes those holes go into the crankcase just like the ones that hold on the flywheel.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: tryan ()
Date: August 31, 2018 07:02PM

Thanks guys. Not diff oil. Both seals were rubber. I also polished it with 600 grit for the second install as previously recommended. Just can't figure out how it was dry for 500 miles and then all of a sudden a large leak. See picture which is about the last 100 miles of driving. Not going to get invited to anybody's driveway. smiling smiley

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: August 31, 2018 07:17PM

You used sealer on the flywheel bolts also? there is a paper seal between the crank and the crank Gear, I have seen that seal go bad and oil comes around the key in the crank and leaks past the gear hub, but not as much as you are describing, maybe try a speedy sleeve, it will increase the diameter of the seal surface a tad bit and make it seal better, when taking it apart really pay attention to the oil flow and try to pin point the exact area its leaking? also put sealant around the outside of the seal before pressing it in the bell housing, I have seen them leak there as well.







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: tryan ()
Date: August 31, 2018 07:51PM

Here is the pic of the oil leak after about the last 100 miles (5 trips of 20 miles each). Yes, I did seal all the bolts and around the seal before pressing with Permatex Ultra Black. Oiled the seal and hub initially. Never noticed the paper seal between the crank and crank gear. I will look at it but just don't think that it would all of a sudden let go. When you say polish, I just lightly wet sanded the hub with 600 grit but didn't see any imperfections. I guess I will have to pull it out again and take pics of the oil flow inside the bell housing.

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: September 01, 2018 01:40AM

Damn that looks and sounds like a bummer. The paper gasket Dave mentions is between the crankshaft and the crankshaft hub (gear). You would need to split the crankcase, remove the crankshaft and press off the gear with a hydraulic press. I very much doubt that is the source of the leak. Have you looked very closely at the oil pan gasket? Is your PCV system clear? Is your engine in good condition (not too much blowby)? What kind of motor oil are you using, brand and viscosity?

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Date: September 01, 2018 03:44AM

Tom,
Welcome to the Corvair Center Forum! Sorry to hear about your frustrating introduction to the Corvair adventure. Sure hope that the "third time is the charm" for you with that pesky oil leak. It's your new workout routine! smoking smiley
I've recently had an oil leak issue on my daily driver- coming from the power steering system. It appeared rather quickly and began to become annoying right away. I tried using some PS fluid with a leak stop, but that didn't stop it.
I had heard that a particular leak stopper "AT-205" was said to be far better than most at drying up such problems.
I bought some, added a couple ounces to the system and was very happy to see that my lousy leak was GONE! And has been dry for several thousand miles, even better!
These chemical solutions work by swelling the rubber of the seal, increasing the effective diameter of the seal surface.
I will suggest that you get a bottle and add some to you engine oil and see what happens. I hope you are as pleasantly surprised as I was with my experience!
I also suggest this to folks with leaks: Get some large cardboard sheets and use them to help identify exactly where the drips are coming from. Clean the bottom of the engine/transaxle, then drive long enough to get the engine up to normal operating temperature - about 15-20 min. at least. When you park, put the sheet of cardboard under the engine so that you can then track just where the leak is dripping down after a short while. Take a look every few min. to see where a drip is. Mark them then observe again. It works best if you mark the location of the cardboard on the floor so you can put it back in the exact same spot each time.
If it is coming out of the small hole in the bottom of the flywheel/clutch housing and it is definitely engine oil, then you know that the large seal or one of the other smaller pathways are the culprit.
If however you see it is coming from other areas, you can then begin to examine other possible pathways.
The top case cover/fan bearing support is another potential location with two gaskets and all the bolts that tend to loosen over time. Oil can leak from there and make it's way down around the back of the engine to the floor.

Finally, I suggest that you create a "signature" that will attach to each message that has your name and location. Tools are in the "Control Panel" Plenty of folks have found nearby Corvair buddies that can make hobby more pleasant, and can lend a hand when it comes to turning/throwing wrenches thumbs up


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: September 01, 2018 03:56AM

Curious, that is a lot of oil on the ground for how clean the back of the car is!

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: September 01, 2018 05:01AM

Is there any chance it's leaking from somewhere higher on the engine and migrating down?

Of course, it wouldn't go away when you change the crank seal and then come back after several hundred miles. Bummer. Have you checked the crankshaft end play? I guess it's possible that the main bearing is so worn that it's just pumping oil through there, but I imagine your oil pressure would be pretty bad at that point.

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2018 05:04AM by Aaron65.

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: September 01, 2018 06:49AM

So you're absolutely sure it's coming from the bell housing weep hole and not the oil pan gasket? What struck me in your post was a 12" puddle in a week. Most leaks are with the engine running, the oil pan will leak when running or not.
I like to run them in on a clean dry floor and jack them up immediately to see what develops on the floor, the first few drops may be key. I've even used a plumb bob to help determine where it's coming from.
I'm not trying to insult your expertise, I just like to exhaust all the sleuthing before going in.
It seems like A LOT of oil to be coming from the bell housing.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: September 01, 2018 08:24AM

JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you're absolutely sure it's coming from the
> bell housing weep hole and not the oil pan gasket?
> What struck me in your post was a 12" puddle in a
> week. Most leaks are with the engine running, the
> oil pan will leak when running or not.
> I like to run them in on a clean dry floor and
> jack them up immediately to see what develops on
> the floor, the first few drops may be key. I've
> even used a plumb bob to help determine where it's
> coming from.
> I'm not trying to insult your expertise, I just
> like to exhaust all the sleuthing before going
> in.
> It seems like A LOT of oil to be coming from the
> bell housing.
> Jim Brandberg
> Isanti, MN
> CorvairRepair.com

I agree. That doesn't look like a typical main seal leak. Was the crankcase apart in the recent past? You might check for oil coming from under a loose lower crankcase bolt or a loose top cover. ??

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 01, 2018 10:24AM

The 1/4-20 bolts in the pan near the Bellhousing do weep many times... put thread sealer on the last 8 bolts and see..

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: WCcorsa ()
Date: September 01, 2018 11:38AM

Based on your initial description I was thinking the same as Motohead.

However, after seeing your picture I realized you are talking about the REAR of the engine and not the front.

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: tryan ()
Date: September 01, 2018 05:00PM

Thanks for all the input. I agree, it seems like too much oil to be just coming from bell housing seal. Some oil coming from the weep hole but some may be coming from the 1/4-20 bolts in the pan near the bell housing. Just don’t understand how it could be dry for 500 miles and then leak like this. Thought that something like a loose crank could destroy the seal. I will pull it out next weekend and carefully inspect.

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: September 01, 2018 05:32PM

Before you drop it out again get it up on off the floor, take the lower shrouds off, clean it off real good and let it run on fast idle for awhile (at least 30 min. )and see if it starts to drip and where from. If not, shut it off and see if it drips later.

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: gregb ()
Date: September 01, 2018 05:38PM

I will be interested to see what you find as I am having the same issue but not as bad as yours. I have changed mine twice now and after a few hundred miles it starts to leak again. I did use the brown viton seals both times so maybe like Matt says that could be a problem. I have real good oil pressure so I think my bearings are good.

Gregb

Alberta Canada
61 Canadian Lakewood
62 Spyder Triple Black Convertible
65 Corsa Coupe

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Re: Bell Housing Crank Seal oil leak
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: September 01, 2018 06:01PM

Tryan - I was thinking the same as Jim B. - that much oil might be the oil pan seal.

BTW - you said you oiled the seal when installing. The manual calls for some chassis grease between the two lips of the inner seal, not oil. When new the inner lip can starve the outer lip of lubrication and the grease holds oil in the area. Otherwise the seal outer lip will overheat if too dry.

I also put just a light coat of RTV (motohead will be jumping - LOL) around the outer seal before I press it in the bellhousing and wipe off excess. Sometimes the seal just doesn't fit tight in the bellhousing.

Good luck.

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