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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: October 27, 2020 04:16PM

I do not see a particular issue with the mounts as long as the bolts to the engine are solid. The engine becomes a integral part of the horizontal brace. The majority of the loads will be still up and down even with the torque of the motor.

I do not see any appreciable moments about those points.

If you were to have a horizontal bar from mount to mount and place the weight on the bar it really is no different than bolting it to the engine, once again as long as the bolts are tight.

But I do agree that if the rubber was closer to the engine there would be less torque on them due to the length of the twist of the motor versus the length of the arm.

I think it will be fine..... but you know how opinions are grinning smiley

B

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block (Sold)
86' BMW 325es
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo
67' UltraVan 211 "Violet"
NFCC, UMCC
Grand Island, NY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2020 04:19PM by toms73novass.

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 27, 2020 04:27PM

Vair / IRS powerpacks don't TWIST... the car "squat!s

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: donm ()
Date: October 27, 2020 04:31PM

That's true IF the bolts to the block are well supported and remain tight. However, there are only two bolts and the bracket can deflect as the two bolts form a line and potentially a hinge. It depends on what's behind the bracket. Is it a large flat aluminum surface? or just two smallish bosses? Any flexing can cause the aluminum to deform. I would feel better about the design if the block had provisions for three bolts to mount the engine mounts like a SB Chevy.

Don M.
Verona, WI (Near Madison)

'67 500 coupe with Crown V8 & Corsa conversion
Bought & built the Corv8 kit in 1970
Currently undergoing a rotisserie restoration
'72 GMC Sierra Grande 402 BB, Short Box, A/C, Owned since 1973

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: October 27, 2020 04:45PM

Tom, (toms73novass)

I'm hoping to receive the Procar floor brackets this week.

I will document the modification so that you can see the results.

Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: Jim Stukenborg ()
Date: October 28, 2020 11:51AM

Dean should be safe with his mount setup. My rear mounted Olds 215/266 V8 uses the same mount setup and I have had the car for 21 years and put close to 9,000 miles on it. It was originally built some years before that. The block mounting bolts have not been a problem. However, recently I did what Mel suggested and tied the two sides together with a bracket running under the pan. Jim

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: donm ()
Date: October 29, 2020 06:02PM

Well it’s hard to criticize a design that has worked well for 21 years, but let me explain my poorly worded previous comments and share an experience I had with my Crown mid-engine Corvair. The Corvair engine mounts as you currently have them cannot carry a significant bending load and are effectively a pinned joint. Therefore the load placed on the arms you’ve fabricated will result in significant bending loads where they bolt to the engine. Apparently this has worked for Jim but the engine mount points on your engine were never designed to carry such bending loads. Engine mounts are typically designed to carry compression/tension loads, but not bending loads. It would be best if you could use a full crossmember that bolted or welded to the Corvair unibody rails and used engine mounts designed for your engine (the vehicle that it came from) bolted in place at the block. This is how your engine was designed to be supported. Another option would be to use the Corvair mounts as you have them but connect the arms under the engine to take the bending loads off the aluminum block. A less desirable (in my opinion) design to avoid issues with the oil pan, would be to weld short arms similar to your current arms to the Corvair rails and use conventional rubber mounts bolted to the aluminum block. Because this would not be a full crossmember, it would cause the Corvair rails to twist some, but they may be able to handle the load.

Now to share my story. Shortly after I built my Corv8 in 1970 using the Crown engine sub-frame that bolts to the outboard seatbelt mounts, I discovered that both rocker panels had developed buckles immediately under were the subframe mounted. I have now repaired the buckles and reinforced the rockers. I have talked with several Corv8 owners (some who built the car back in the 70’s like me) and no one has reported buckling of the rockers. My car did not have rusty rockers so the problem was likely due to my driving habits as a 17 year old. I probably hit a set of railroad tracks or a speed bump a little too hard a time or two. So, does the fact that others have not had the buckling problem prove that the Crown design is a good one or have the others just been lucky? Who knows? But in my opinion it’s a weak design and that’s why I reinforced the rockers. Call it piece of mind.

The 215 aluminum V8 is a neat engine and I’ve been enjoying your posts as you build the car. Maybe your engine mounts will last 21 years like Jim’s, but if it were me I wouldn’t want to risk it.

Don M.
Verona, WI (Near Madison)

'67 500 coupe with Crown V8 & Corsa conversion
Bought & built the Corv8 kit in 1970
Currently undergoing a rotisserie restoration
'72 GMC Sierra Grande 402 BB, Short Box, A/C, Owned since 1973

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: donm ()
Date: October 29, 2020 06:23PM

Ooops! Make that "peace of mind" confused smiley

Don M.
Verona, WI (Near Madison)

'67 500 coupe with Crown V8 & Corsa conversion
Bought & built the Corv8 kit in 1970
Currently undergoing a rotisserie restoration
'72 GMC Sierra Grande 402 BB, Short Box, A/C, Owned since 1973

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: October 30, 2020 04:02AM

Don (donm),

Thank you for the detailed explanation and back story of your experience.

I have peace of mind because "the proof is in the pudding" as one might say...

This engine mount system has been safe and stable on at least three different late model Corvairs with aluminum V8 engines for decades:

->Jim Stukenborg's car

->Terry Kalp's car

->Mine when Ken Arnold built and drag raced it

Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: Mel ()
Date: October 30, 2020 06:15AM

X2

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: kenvair ()
Date: October 30, 2020 03:15PM

Don M.(Donm), You are absolutely right in everything you say regarding the engine mounting system and I agree that if this car was going to be an off road vehicle or a stadium jump vehicle then definitely a mount system going from frame rail to frame rail would be required. However, these cars are just street driven cruisers and not subject to the increased forces requiring max strength. JMHO Ken Arnold

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: November 03, 2020 06:02PM

Received the new electronic gauge set from Dakota Digital today.

I made it easy and asked them to duplicate the same layout that Dale Smiley used for his set.

I might try to connect up power and see how they look with back-lighting.

The car will be headed to the body shop soon, so it will be quite awhile before these gauges can be installed...







Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: November 03, 2020 08:20PM

Dean, what are you using as a signal generator for your speedometer?

'29 Ford Model A Tudor (Great Grandfather bought new)
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 03, 2020 08:39PM

GPS?

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Have; '66 Monza Coupe - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - 140, 4-spd. Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza
Have had; '61 Monza coupe, 80hp, PG
'62 Monza Wagon, 4spd.
'63 Spyder,
'65 Corsa
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dually, approaching 400K
'03 Honda Del Sol
17'Terry

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 03, 2020 08:49PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GPS?
=====================

Geo Positioning Satellite.... like my smarterphone!!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: November 04, 2020 01:34AM

Arden,

I will most likely use Dakota Digital's GPS-50-2 unit, but decided to wait until it was time to start installing the dash after the car gets back from the body shop before pulling the trigger on that part... just to keep my options open.

Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: Mel ()
Date: November 04, 2020 05:19AM

donm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well it’s hard to criticize a design that has worked well for 21 years, but let me explain my poorly worded previous comments and share an experience I had with my Crown mid-engine Corvair. The Corvair engine mounts as you currently have them cannot carry a significant bending load and are effectively a pinned joint. Therefore the load placed on the arms you’ve fabricated will result in significant bending loads where they bolt to the engine. Apparently this has worked for Jim but the engine mount points on your engine were never designed to carry such bending loads. Engine mounts are typically designed to carry compression/tension loads, but not bending loads. It would be best if you could use a full crossmember that bolted or welded to the Corvair unibody rails and used engine mounts designed for your engine (the vehicle that it came from) bolted in place at the block. This is how your engine was designed to be supported. Another option would be to use the Corvair mounts as you have them but connect the arms under the engine to take the bending loads off the aluminum block. A less desirable (in my opinion) design to avoid issues with the oil pan, would be to weld short arms similar to your current arms to the Corvair rails and use conventional rubber mounts bolted to the aluminum block. Because this would not be a full crossmember, it would cause the Corvair rails to twist some, but they may be able to handle the load.
>
> Now to share my story. Shortly after I built my Corv8 in 1970 using the Crown engine sub-frame that bolts to the outboard seatbelt mounts, I discovered that both rocker panels had developed buckles immediately under were the subframe mounted. I have now repaired the buckles and reinforced the rockers. I have talked with several Corv8 owners (some who built the car back in the 70’s like me) and no one has reported buckling of the rockers. My car did not have rusty rockers so the problem was likely due to my driving habits as a 17 year old. I probably hit a set of railroad tracks or a speed bump a little too hard a time or two. So, does the fact that others have not had the buckling problem prove that the Crown design is a good one or have the others just been lucky? Who knows? But in my opinion it’s a weak design and that’s why I reinforced the rockers. Call it piece of mind.
>
> The 215 aluminum V8 is a neat engine and I’ve been enjoying your posts as you build the car. Maybe your engine mounts will last 21 years like Jim’s, but if it were me I wouldn’t want to risk it.


X2 , won't last even on the street sad smiley, I can hear the crying now about the broken block.

Orangeville, Ontario. CANADA

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: November 04, 2020 05:36PM

Thanks for your input Mel...

Let's move on from the engine mount discussion, OK?

It should be pretty obvious that I have complete confidence in this mount system based upon the established track record of no less than three LM V8 Corvairs with this system as well as the opinion of the man who has built no less than 2 of these engine mount systems with absolutely NO FAILURES in well over 20 years.

Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: November 07, 2020 06:47PM

Received the floor adapters for the Procar seats this week and started the process of test installing them with the seats.

Noted that the driver side fits almost perfectly...but will need to adjust the front left hole.

The passenger side is way off!

Installed the driver's seat to see if the height is acceptable.

Sat inside and am pretty happy with the height as well as the comfort.

Next step is to modify the floor adapters to fit the floor mounting points.|

DRIVER SIDE:


.

PASSENGER SIDE:











Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: November 08, 2020 05:27PM

Finished the seat floor adapters and also finished modifying the sliders so that the seats will sit as low as possible.

For the sliders, I cut off two of the bolt openings so that when the sliders were mated to the floor adapters, they would fit together without the bolt openings hitting the adapter feet.

For the rear feet on the passenger side adapter, I cut out a notch that included the existing bolt hole and welded in 3/16 plates that extended to cover the rear floor stud and the rear floor nut.

For the rest of the bolt holes in the remaining feet on both driver and passenger adapters, I welded up all the holes and re-drilled them for a tighter fit.













Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: 65 V8 Coupe w/Buick 215 - Racecar to Streetcar Build smoking smiley
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: November 09, 2020 04:13AM

Thanks for the pics, lookin good.

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block (Sold)
86' BMW 325es
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo
67' UltraVan 211 "Violet"
NFCC, UMCC
Grand Island, NY

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Current Page: 17 of 19


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