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OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 05:42AM

You have always wanted a garage...
You have ONLY 2 choices - You have to do it in stages - What would you do and why?


1. Build what is known as a portable garage. MINUMN SIZE: 14'X20' No Permit needed and it can be moved and/or used for storage if you are ever able to build a regular garage. NOTE: However, you only have a Plywood floor with 12" OC joist.

2. Get a Permit and use those same funds to get you as far as you can building a pole barn garage. MINUMN SIZE: 16'X30' NOTE: To get you by for now - You can lay down plywood on crushed stone base to do some work. At a later date, when you have the extra funds; you can have a concrete slab poured.

What would you do and why?

Thank you,
Tony



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 05:50AM by OttawaCorvairGuy.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: Kyle_in_Mich ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:01AM

I would focus on the slab. Putting up roof and walls prior to the slab will only make for more headaches down the road (by my non-builder experience).

CORSA Member
Traverse City,MI
Daily driver- Bicycle
Fun driver/project- 65 Corsa 140/4 speed

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: glivorsi ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:09AM

I don't think I'd trust jackstands on a plywood floor. I also would prefer not to weld on top of a combustible surface. I'd have to have a slab to work off of.

Greg in Wildwood, MO (part of the St. Louis urban sprawl)

1965 Monza Vert 110PG, Crocus Yellow with black interior and top

2014 Honda Accord V6 (DD)
2017 Honda Pilot (wifemobile)
2012 Chevy Sonic 1.8L (kid's car)
1997 Honda CBR1100XX
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 (no longer own)

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:12AM

Kyle_in_Mich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would focus on the slab. Putting up roof and
> walls prior to the slab will only make for more
> headaches down the road (by my non-builder
> experience)


Don't know about that. I've always seen the pole barn go up first and slab later.

Tony, I would invest towards a permanent solution. A nice pole barn but with a dirt or rock floor is great motivation to get the concrete done soon after and then you are set for a long time.


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 110 Convertible
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:14AM

Kyle_in_Mich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would focus on the slab. Putting up roof and
> walls prior to the slab will only make for more
> headaches down the road (by my non-builder
> experience).


Kyle,

That is one great thing about using a pole barn design. It is not the same as a regular stick built building.

And again - You only had 2 choices... Grin grinning smiley

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:15AM

glivorsi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think I'd trust jackstands on a plywood
> floor. I also would prefer not to weld on top of a
> combustible surface. I'd have to have a slab to
> work off of.


I did say one could do some work... Not all...

Again - you only had 2 choices...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 06:18AM by OttawaCorvairGuy.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:19AM

azdave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kyle_in_Mich Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I would focus on the slab. Putting up roof and
> > walls prior to the slab will only make for more
> > headaches down the road (by my non-builder
> > experience)
>
>
> Don't know about that. I've always seen the pole
> barn go up first and slab later.
>
> Tony, I would invest towards a permanent solution.
> A nice pole barn but with a dirt or rock floor is
> great motivation to get the concrete done soon
> after and then you are set for a long time.


THANK YOU Dave! You are the first person to follow instructions and be most helpful... thumbs up


Read Dave's post above.

People You have to understand that there are ONLY 2 choices and out of those 2 - what would you do and why?



To spell it out for some.

Most of us live paycheck to paycheck... Thus short on funds to do what we would PREFER to do...

Thus these are my ONLY choices at this moment in time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 06:25AM by OttawaCorvairGuy.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:56AM

I also tried to add (to the post above) that it is a long time coming.
I've gotten my hopes up before - to run short of funds and time to get it done.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: Murphy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:56AM

Spending on a temporary floor, plywood or crushed stone is a waste, plus more work installing the temp floor and then removing it later.

Pour a slab first, and when funds are available build the rest. Just my .02.

65 Monza Coupe
61 500 Coupe (under Construction) Getting REALclose.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: July 11, 2018 10:02AM

I would build the pole barn, it will keep you out of the elements till you can get the floor in.

With pole barns most often the structure is built then floor completed.

My I make a "look ahead" suggestion. As you know up here in the winter gets cold and if you want to do work if you heat the structure no matter what you feet will still be cold.

When it comes time for the slab if you were to put 7/8 pex tubing in the slab you can do in floor heating. I have it and it is a god send. My feet are never cold and the floor holds the temp. I use a small tankless hot water heater to heat the fluid with a pump that kicks on when it calls for heat. Works great so far for 10 years.

You can not do it once you pour the floor with out the tubing. The rest of the system could be added anytime and the pex is not extremely cost prohibitive. If your interested, I have pics.

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 10:10AM by toms73novass.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 11:00AM

toms73novass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would build the pole barn, it will keep you out
> of the elements till you can get the floor in.
>
> With pole barns most often the structure is built
> then floor completed.
>
> My I make a "look ahead" suggestion. As you know
> up here in the winter gets cold and if you want to
> do work if you heat the structure no matter what
> you feet will still be cold.
>
> When it comes time for the slab if you were to put
> 7/8 pex tubing in the slab you can do in floor
> heating. I have it and it is a god send. My feet
> are never cold and the floor holds the temp. I
> use a small tankless hot water heater to heat the
> fluid with a pump that kicks on when it calls for
> heat. Works great so far for 10 years.
>
> You can not do it once you pour the floor with out
> the tubing. The rest of the system could be added
> anytime and the pex is not extremely cost
> prohibitive. If your interested, I have pics.


Thank you Tom. When it is time and I have the funds - I do plan to have radiant floor heat. I want to use that modeled Styrofoam that allows one to lock the PEX tubing in place.

I would like to hear more about how your system works.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 11:01AM by OttawaCorvairGuy.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: moomba32 ()
Date: July 11, 2018 11:05AM

The pole barn looks like the best path to a permanent shop providing your laws allow you to keep adding to it, like roof now, concrete next year then walls and doors later. The utility I work for will not reuse utility poles and for whatever reason they always have some waiting to be thrown away and will gladly give them to you so you can have free poles.
Second option is the portable building option, if you can do a concrete pad with the portable on it that would be a nice shop however for me when I built my shop the floor had specs that required rebar and inspection before being poured so this would be a barrier to a permanent building later if you pour concrete to work off of now.

Don Marlowe
66 Monza 2Dr 140/pg
64 Spyder convertible now, 110/pg
Eutawville SC

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: July 11, 2018 11:58AM

Here is a picture of my tubing set up. Mine is not a pole barn but the floor would not be that much different.

2" rigid insulation under floor and a vertical barrier around parameter.

Rebar and mesh, tubing tied to mesh. All sunk under floor.

I made sure to not put tubing under where I was going to bolt my lift to the floor.

You will notice in the back left of the picture the area where the tubes terminate and the risers are copper pipe to connect to the hot water tank system

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: July 11, 2018 12:07PM

This is basically the plumbing setup, actually taken from the site that I got my supplies from www.radiantcompany.com





-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: July 11, 2018 01:24PM

Thank you

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: July 11, 2018 04:23PM

When I bought the house I am in now, almost 20 years ago, I went from having a 40X50 Steel Building, a 28X32 Pole Building, and a 18X20 2 car garage to nothing except a driveway that was about 40' wide and 24' deep and I could squeeze five cars on it if I wanted to.

As a purely "Temporary" solution, I bought one of those 20X20 Carports with the steel tube framework then over time enclosed it and installed doors. All these years later the roof has started to leak because the installers tightened some of the screws to tight and wasted the rubber seal which in turn allowed rust to begin.

The downsides were that even though I put down pressure treated lumber as a base for the walls and did apply some type of sealant, rain water still gets into the building. The driveway wasn't quite level and when I installed the overhead doors, there was about a four inch difference in gap under the doors from one side to another. The building wasn't "Snow Load" rated or certified but I add temporary seasonal supports in the center when I have any concerns.

What would I do, IF I were to do it again? I would start with a proper Concrete Foundation and floor with a cinder block border at least two blocks high.
I might still consider a steel carport if cost were a factor but would make sure that the roof was what is referred to as a Vertical Rib which would better allow runoff from the rain or snow and not hold water or snow.

Recently I have finally been preparing to build a proper stick built garage with 2X6 walls, a ceiling height tall enough to allow for a lift and large enough for no less than four vehicles. I also will be using overhead doors about 10' wide by 8' high but no less than 9' wide no matter what. It may be a couple years yet, but I intend to get there.
Attached is a photo of my 20X20 Steel frame carport with it's 2X4 studded walls and vinyl siding. I didn't use any nails assembling it because I always intended to take it apart.

Looking at the photo's reminds me that the aluminum siding needs pressure washed again. For what it is worth, The Corvairs are under the covers in the photo's.

1962 95 F.C. Van
1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: kenzen ()
Date: July 11, 2018 06:51PM

Nothing more permanent then a temporary solution...

kenzen
66 Monza Coupe 110/PG
Bel Air, MD

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: July 11, 2018 07:01PM

OttawaCorvairGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
You have always wanted a garage...
You have ONLY 2 choices - You have to do it in stages - What would you do and why?

1. Build what is known as a portable garage. MINUMN SIZE: 14'X20' No Permit needed and it can be moved and/or used for storage if you are ever able to build a regular garage. NOTE: However, you only have a Plywood floor with 12" OC joist.

2. Get a Permit and use those same funds to get you as far as you can building a pole barn garage. MINUMN SIZE: 16'X30' NOTE: To get you by for now - You can lay down plywood on crushed stone base to do some work. At a later date, when you have the extra funds; you can have a concrete slab poured.

What would you do and why?

Thank you,
Tony

Well Tony, you have left out a LOT of details.
What is the purpose of this "Garage"?
Just getting the cars out of the weather?
Having a dry & warm place to work on them during cold winter months?
Having a place to hide from the wife?

How much space do you have?
If you go with the smaller sized, so called "portable garage",
what becomes of it when you are ready to step up to something bigger?
Is the "portable garage" one of those "Home Depot"/"Tough Shed" kits?
Or something that you are going to build yourself?

Not knowing more details than we have been given, I would lean towards
the smaller Shed/Garage structure.
You could do ALL of the work yourself and save a
bundle of money on "Labor".


14X20 is not big, but it IS plenty large enough
to store and work on a Corvair with a little room to spare.
My attached garage is about 12X20, so I know it can be done!
As long as you are going to build it yourself, and not a kit,
I think the small one will get you a great little garage for the least amount of capital out-lay.
I think 12" O.C. joists would be just right,
as long as you used 2X10's or even 2X12's as your joists.
For the floor, I would use inch & 1/8 thick,
plywood with a tongue and groove edge.
Constructed like this, I would not have any concerns driving a Corvair into it.
If you had any lingering reservations about using jack-stands,
or even a floor jack on this kind of floor, then you could
get an extra sheet of plywood to make some large "pads"
to put under them to distribute the weight out a bit more,
though I do not think that would be necessary.

One of the BIGGEST "why's" for me, is by doing the smaller one,
you are "avoiding any Imperial entanglements"
as the good Han Solo would say.

Just my opinion, and we all know what "Free Advice" is worth. eye rolling smiley


.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 07:10PM by American Mel.

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: July 12, 2018 05:26AM

The long term problem with a pole barn is that, sooner or later, they will all rot off at the ground. So if you plan on having the property for any length of time (think in decades) a permanent concrete and block foundation is the only way to go.

I spent $16,000 on a 24'x36' storage building back in '01. It has a concrete floor with moisture barrier and 3 single car garage doors, plus one people door and no windows. Vinyl siding, shingle roof, no insulation. It was money well spent, as it has been an asset ever since.

-Mark

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Re: OT - Garage Build - What would you do and why?
Posted by: Murphy ()
Date: July 12, 2018 07:56AM

I remember some rumblings about building a barn/garage a couple of years ago. My guess is Hell will freeze over before that ever happens.

65 Monza Coupe
61 500 Coupe (under Construction) Getting REALclose.

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