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Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: injectedvair ()
Date: July 10, 2018 06:23PM

I am considering manufacturing new pinion shafts, late model only, and need to see what the interest is in this project. If enough people are interested I will post cost of each unit and and what deposit will be needed. I know that most of our cars have many many miles on that shaft without being looked at for wear. I can assure you they are not pristine.

Thanks
Duane Cartwright
Cartwright Fuel Injection LLC

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: July 10, 2018 08:59PM

This would be a competitor to the one Clarks sells? ...Or different in some way?

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: solo2r ()
Date: July 10, 2018 09:35PM

X2

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: texas yenko dude ()
Date: July 11, 2018 05:12AM

I have 2-3 Cidco shafts stashed and a couple of NOS ones, but might be game to pick up another one. I know Russ Rosenberg is in need of 1 for sure.

Texas YENKO Dude
YS-070
YS-199
YS-320
Southeast of Disorder


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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: July 11, 2018 05:28AM

Which length? The 65 length or the 66-69 length?

Lee J

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: July 11, 2018 09:09AM

injectedvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am considering manufacturing new pinion shafts,
> late model only, and need to see what the interest
> is in this project. If enough people are
> interested I will post cost of each unit and and
> what deposit will be needed. I know that most of
> our cars have many many miles on that shaft
> without being looked at for wear. I can assure you
> they are not pristine.
>
> Thanks
> Duane Cartwright
> Cartwright Fuel Injection LLC

As GNVAIR asked - 65 or 66-69 pinion shaft - THERE IS A DIFFERENCE! Dan Drommerhausen with the help of others found the 65 pinion shaft is longer and will cause failures if used with a 66-69 transmission. The article has made the rounds and finally CORSA published it. Seth Emerson is updating his book with the information. So it's been reviewed a number of times and has held up as correct. This problem was discovered due to the fact a lot of good used shafts were being scavenged and used to repair higher mileage transaxles. When a 65 pinion shaft was used with a 66-69 transmission - KABOOM after awhile.

The revised design 66-69 pinion shaft WILL work fine with the 65 transmission.

Also note I've seen copies of the CIDCO pinion shaft prints and oddly enough some of the critical dimensions seem to fall between 65 and 66-69 factory dimensions. It was going to be looked into, but interest waned since nobody has reported any issue with the CIDCO shafts.

Please note that while the pinion shaft internal splines wear - it is a GOOD thing versus the transmission output shaft splines wearing!! Basically the pinion shaft is sacrificed to protect the more expensive transmission shaft. Considering the pinion shafts seem to go about 80K miles their hardness seems to be acceptable to protect the transmission shaft splines from wear. Some suggest increasing the hardness of the pinion shaft splines, but then that would cause the transmission shaft splines to wear. At least that's my opinion on the matter.

No doubt if a number of Corvairs stay on the road long enough demand for good pinion shafts will only increase.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 09:17AM by 66vairman.

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: Vairismo ()
Date: July 11, 2018 11:00AM

At this point, there may be enough adequately good transmission mainshafts around to risk the possible wear of the transmission splines in the interest of pinion shaft longevity.
IMO, if they get reproduced again by Duane, they perhaps should be offered both ways, or at least the option ought to exist for those willing to take the (small in my view) risk.
Y'all might be giving GM too much credit for wishing to insure transmission shaft life. More likely what they did was adequate so why add expense of the treatment to make the pinion shafts last longer? YMMV



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2018 11:03AM by Vairismo.

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: Vairismo ()
Date: July 11, 2018 11:08AM

Maybe another question to consider is, has anyone worn out a CIDCO replacement pinion shaft? If so, How many?

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: July 11, 2018 11:36AM

Vairismo - Not giving GM any credit, just saying a worn pinion shaft is better then BOTH the transmission shaft AND pinion shaft wearing if their respective splines have the same durability.

Based on word of mouth - there do seem to be a number of the early transmission parts around, but indications I get suggest the 66-69 transmission parts are not that plentiful now. Just opinions I've heard from folks looking for parts. Others should add their experiences.

Considering most of us don't put a lot of miles on our "hobby" cars it may be difficult to find someone who has accumulated a lot of miles with a CIDCO replacement part. The CIDCO pinion shafts seem to be popular with the V8 Vair folks, maybe they can share their experiences.

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: 65180 ()
Date: July 11, 2018 12:25PM

Don’t know if this would be of any interest, but Bob Anderson lives here in Tucson, now retired. He mentioned awhile back that he would like the sell his blueprints, prototypes, etc. If someone was interested, I can get his contact information.

Mike Lake
Tucson, Az
65 Corsa 180
65 Corsa 140 sold
66 Monza PG
66 Monza 4sp sold
61 Lakewood sold
61 La[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: July 11, 2018 12:36PM

65180 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don’t know if this would be of any interest, but
> Bob Anderson lives here in Tucson, now retired. He
> mentioned awhile back that he would like the sell
> his blueprints, prototypes, etc. If someone was
> interested, I can get his contact information.

Craig replies: That's interesting. I thought Bob already sold his blueprints and prototypes to Duane Cartwright, the OP on this thread.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: Vairismo ()
Date: July 11, 2018 12:54PM

Well, the CIDCO shafts were allegedly a superior material, so may get better service life right there. Would be good to get reports from the V8 guys like you suggest. Still, surface hardening techniques have come a long way since the 1960s.
I'm thinking about the currently popular ways of nitriding parts. Seems that it is very similar to the old case hardening but with more flexibility in the range of processing results. Where are those Formula One engineers when we need to pick their brains?
Also, the transmission splines/shaft are hardened throughout , right? Nitriding only hardens to the depth specified by the customer (I believe), so may not be so damaging to the mainshaft splines IDK. Someone needs to take the risks to find out, but these
cars being heavily used is mostly over. Pinion spline wear also seems related to the forces involved as I've observed that the 3.89:1 pinions seem to wear less than the 3.27:1 used ones. Hope something comes of this line of discussion.
(Vmo)

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: July 11, 2018 02:26PM

Don't forget Ultravans. Of course they are automatics so they use a different shaft but the shaft does seem to be the most common point of failure for the transaxle which supports the load theory.

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: July 11, 2018 03:16PM

I found the stock pinion shaft was very strong.
The Cidco was good but had fitment issues on really virgin mainshafts,the internal splines needed to be longer and they were a little tight.
Mike

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: July 11, 2018 03:55PM

Common problem with many Corvairs are the pinion gears getting loose on the shaft. This certainly would be a good thing as pinion shafts typically come with the gear.

Lee J

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: solo2r ()
Date: July 11, 2018 08:47PM

I still do not understand the reason for these if the Clarks new "better than stock" ones are available?

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: July 11, 2018 10:00PM

cnicol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 65180 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don’t know if this would be of any interest,
> but
> > Bob Anderson lives here in Tucson, now retired.
> He
> > mentioned awhile back that he would like the
> sell
> > his blueprints, prototypes, etc. If someone was
> > interested, I can get his contact information.
>
> Craig replies: That's interesting. I thought Bob
> already sold his blueprints and prototypes to
> Duane Cartwright, the OP on this thread.

I've heard conflicting stories. Apparently Bob A. sold different things to different people.

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: injectedvair ()
Date: July 11, 2018 10:38PM

Craig:
If I understand it correctly they bought shafts from Bob Anderson. I will get the facts from Bob and/or from Clark's and post them here. I know that Bob had them manufactured here in Portland and have contacted the shop that did them they are willing to produce more if the order is sufficient in quantity.I had other parts made there and they were of high quality.

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: injectedvair ()
Date: July 29, 2018 03:47PM

I checked with Clark's and they have no new pinion shafts perhaps used but I didn't ask.
I am still contemplating manufacturing a run of 50 if there enough interest in this project.

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Re: Late model pinion shaft
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: July 29, 2018 06:11PM

injectedvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I checked with Clark's and they have no new pinion
> shafts perhaps used but I didn't ask.
> I am still contemplating manufacturing a run of 50
> if there enough interest in this project.

Maybe Clark's online catalog isn't updated, BUT the do show the NEW replacement pinion shaft C6027L as available.

The DO NOT have new old stock (NOS) pinion shafts in stock.

Perhaps they though the inquiry for for NOS.

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