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Hi, I'm a new member. Want to do a rear mount 4.3 v6 in an EM
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: July 07, 2018 10:42PM

Based on the often repeated knowledge whenever somebody asks you guys how to put a V8 in the back of a Corvair it appears to be completely impossible to correctly mount it without an unobtainable adapter produced by a long dead company such as Kelmark or Crown.

I can understand the situation PG owners have but what's to stop anyone with a 3/4 speed from bolting a standard small block bellhousing to the gearbox and bolting an SBC to it?
I'm not trying to be a smartass I just want to understand what's going on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2018 01:20PM by MattNall.

Attachments:
Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 07, 2018 11:34PM

Welcome to the CCF!

I swear we've seen that pic before!! ggg

You say REAR..... what you are talking about is MID-

Most today are using other transaxles... something with an OD... Porsche, etc.

For the rear..... Back end... imagination is limitless...

Have you been to [v8registry.com] ???

How about some pics of your projects / drivers...





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Attachments:
Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: July 08, 2018 05:33AM

There are modern set ups available now that are not only stronger but have readily available adapters. One set up is the Porsche Boxster 6 speed. The other is Mike Levine's Jerico/C5 set up.

Lee J

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: July 08, 2018 08:03AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to the CCF!
>
> I swear we've seen that pic before!! ggg
>
> You say REAR..... what you are talking about is
> MID-
>
> Most today are using other transaxles... something
> with an OD... Porsche, etc.
>
> For the rear..... Back end... imagination is
> limitless...
>
> Have you been to [v8registry.com] ???
>
> How about some pics of your projects / drivers...

What i mean to say is what makes the Saginaw gearbox on a Vair transaxle so different from a front engine car that prevents people from putting any old bellhousing on there?
It seems to be like one of those things everyone knows so nobody really ever needs to talk about it. Kind of like how everyone is supposed to know Chrysler drivetrains are offset to the passenger side by 1.5-2 inches.


Anyway i'll upload some pictures as soon as i can bring down the file size but My projects are a 1961 Monza 900 with a freshly ruined motor (hint hint) and a 1974 Plymouth Duster that will begrudgingly receive a 440.

The Corvair is a franken car anyway, near as i can tell the transaxle is at least a 63 so i'm not worried about originality.

Attachments:
Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: July 08, 2018 08:07AM

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are modern set ups available now that are
> not only stronger but have readily available
> adapters. One set up is the Porsche Boxster 6
> speed. The other is Mike Levine's Jerico/C5 set
> up.


A GM V6 seems to be the most natural fit besides i'd like to keep the 4 speed if possible. It shifts as smooth as glass.

Not that i'm disregarding what you're saying. It's pretty neat how much engineering people are doing to put all manner of engines into Corvairs.

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: July 08, 2018 08:11AM

WELCOME...there is no substitute for cubic inches.

Especially when you have a transaxle you cant break.

Attachments:


Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 08, 2018 08:42AM

Charlie Kelly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What i mean to say is what makes the Saginaw
> gearbox on a Vair transaxle so different from a
> front engine car that prevents people from putting
> any old bellhousing on there?
> It seems to be like one of those things everyone
> knows so nobody really ever needs to talk about
> it. Kind of like how everyone is supposed to know
> Chrysler drivetrains are offset to the passenger
> side by 1.5-2 inches.


> My projects are a
> 1961 Monza 900 with a freshly ruined motor (hint
> hint) and a 1974 Plymouth Duster that will
> begrudgingly receive a 440.
=====================================================

Mid engine.... Yes you can adapt any B/H you want.... and you do know the Vair sets to the Driver's side by 3/4"?? gg

"Ruined"?? If it runs it's GREAT! We've been part of so many "custom setups" nothing surprises us... and only a few here are Factory Stock restorers...we seem to specialize in the odd!! LOL!

More pics! And try [tinypic.com] to get the "ViewingSize" of your pics to 1024x768 or smaller..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: July 08, 2018 08:50AM

Charlie Kelly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gnvair Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are modern set ups available now that are
> > not only stronger but have readily available
> > adapters. One set up is the Porsche Boxster 6
> > speed. The other is Mike Levine's Jerico/C5 set
> > up.
>
>
> A GM V6 seems to be the most natural fit besides
> i'd like to keep the 4 speed if possible. It
> shifts as smooth as glass.
>
> Not that i'm disregarding what you're saying. It's
> pretty neat how much engineering people are doing
> to put all manner of engines into Corvairs.

Yes but you are back to this
Quote
Charlie Kelly
V8 in the back of a Corvair it appears to be completely impossible to correctly mount it without an unobtainable adapter produced by a long dead company such as Kelmark or Crown.
There was a lot more to the Crown than just the adapter plate. There was also the solid main shaft, the special input gear. The stuff is out there. It just might not be cheap or easy to find.

Lee J

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: July 08, 2018 08:56AM

Welcome to CCF. Chris Wills developed a kit to use the typical 'big car Saginaw' between the SBC and the Corvair diff. It is/was for mid-engine only due to the length of the pieces.

If you are wanting a V6/V8 in the rear replacing the Corvair 6 it has been done often. Most use the Corvair transaxle and with adapter plate/bellhousing from KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products) bolt the engine to the diff. In these cases the engine must be rebuilt to rotate in reverse due to rotation of Corvair engine and design of Corvair diff.


Using Porsche gearbox allows engine to turn normal/stock rotation. The different mods and cars are shown in members cars on V8 registry site.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: July 08, 2018 08:56AM

You also mention your car is an early model. If you are planning a mid engine swap then you have a whole different ball game because of the rear suspension layout and design.
The 60-64 use a unitized swing axle set up. The trans axle position set the toe for the rear wheels via shims. The rear sub frame is different between the PG/3 speed and 4 speed cars. The early model gear boxes (similar design up to and including the 65 models) are significantly shorter than the 66-69 style gear box of which Crown and Kelmark conversions were performed.
Pretty much all of the mid engine swaps have been performed on the 65-69 models because of the true independent rear suspension which is a superior design.

Lee J

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: July 08, 2018 10:44AM

steve c goodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to CCF. Chris Wills developed a kit to use
> the typical 'big car Saginaw' between the SBC and
> the Corvair diff. It is/was for mid-engine only
> due to the length of the pieces.
>
> If you are wanting a V6/V8 in the rear replacing
> the Corvair 6 it has been done often. Most use
> the Corvair transaxle and with adapter
> plate/bellhousing from KEP (Kennedy Engineered
> Products) bolt the engine to the diff. In these
> cases the engine must be rebuilt to rotate in
> reverse due to rotation of Corvair engine and
> design of Corvair diff.
>
>
> Using Porsche gearbox allows engine to turn
> normal/stock rotation. The different mods and
> cars are shown in members cars on V8 registry
> site.


The plan was a V6 in the rear. I have an old style 4.3 laying around and i'm sure reverse rotation parts aren't hard to come by. I just don't want to yank out the Corvair motor and find out that a normal SBC bellhousing doesn't fit and i have to wait for years for a specific Corvair-to-small block bellhousing to pop up on Ebay.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2018 10:46AM by Charlie Kelly.

Attachments:

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: July 08, 2018 10:47AM

Ok rear engine swaps are different. You need a Kelmark/Mid Engineering or Kennedy Engineering bell housing or make your own to bolt the V6 to the back on the Corvair transaxle.

Lee J

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: July 08, 2018 10:57AM

There are several v6 early conversions here. To help get their attention change your subject line to something such as this:

early model v6 owners help me

looking for early model v6 owners/help


you get the idea. Or maybe Matt has a way of just changing this thread title.

As Lee and I have stated, not tough to find adapters.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: July 08, 2018 11:26AM

Aww shucks. The picture at the top looks like the bellhousing is boogered on too.

Based on what i see through parts diagrams the stock Corvair bellhousing is actually backwards? That would explain why normal bellhousings don't fit.



I've been reading the threads by Lostbooger and they've been very insightful. It looks like there's plenty of room.

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 08, 2018 11:37AM

You are correct!! and the engine mates to the Diff!! not the trans in the rear...even though MOST of the parts are from other GM products...

Think about 2 ways to go..

Build the Corvair engine for a peppy performer.

Think of a Nissan engine that turns the right way...most turbo them..

OR an 80's FWD setup complete....semi rear , semi mid...

For year many '60 Oldmobile Toronado FWD were yuse and driven daily..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: July 08, 2018 11:39AM

Charlie Kelly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aww shucks. The picture at the top looks like the
> bellhousing is boogered on too.
>
> Based on what i see through parts diagrams the
> stock Corvair bellhousing is actually backwards?
> That would explain why normal bellhousings don't
> fit.
>
>
>
> I've been reading the threads by Lostbooger and
> they've been very insightful. It looks like
> there's plenty of room.
------------------------------------

Steve sez: Remember you are bolting your v6 4.3L to
the end of the diff, not the transmission.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: July 08, 2018 11:49AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are correct!! and the engine mates to the
> Diff!! not the trans in the rear...even though
> MOST of the parts are from other GM products...
>
> Think about 2 ways to go..
>
> Build the Corvair engine for a peppy performer.
>
> Think of a Nissan engine that turns the right
> way...most turbo them..
>
> OR an 80's FWD setup complete....semi rear ,
> semi mid...
>
> For year many '60 Oldmobile Toronado FWD were
> yuse and driven daily..


Well hopefully i can locate an adapter some day. I'm not sure where to look but i'll keep my eye on the forums in case anyone decides to sell one.

A Toro transaxle seems overkill but i've seen it used in other projects before.

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: July 08, 2018 12:55PM

I am thinking that eBay has the correct adapter/bellhsng for 4.3L to Corvair transaxle listed frequently.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 08, 2018 12:55PM

Save a EBAY search and they'll email you when one is listed! W here we find them mostly.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Re: Hi, I'm a new member. Okay so about bellhousings:
Posted by: Charlie Kelly ()
Date: July 08, 2018 12:59PM

Alright, thanks for the help guys!

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