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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 06, 2018 10:05PM

Rod, original Endplay measurement was wrong.... was done using the HB outer ring while engine was in the RS. Outer ring came off by hand after engine was removed. And it never wobbled when setting timing......while the engine "knocked". Oil filter has not one scratch!





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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: August 07, 2018 08:11PM

Matt did you look into the engine today? OR maybe better question is: did you discover anything that would make the noise?

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 07, 2018 08:27PM

Naw, busy with other things!

So far only the rotated pistons... Bellhousing off next.... it appears to be an EM and Crank flange sticks out further than 1/8". After I check both ends and rotate the pistons I'll run it again....then if it still knocks... split the cases..

The one thing we missed was that the HB was separating and the outer ring was hitting the timing cover... and grooved it... but never touched the oil filter.... wish we had run it with no outer ring....

I cannot believe it could make that much knocking..







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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 08, 2018 05:17PM

Correction.... Ed did run it with only the inner ring...... knocking the same..

Pulled it off.... turns out the removed metal on the timing case was likely ground off for clearance... inner pulley was normal had to be jacked...but wasn't super tight...

FW end

Early B/H , late cam no witness marks... all looks good... 8409 must have the early crankgear...good 0.250" space between end of teeth and Flange..

Other head tomorrow... upper nuts soaking overnight! Right... out west... We removed one stud yesterday... short soak...no heat used..





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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 09, 2018 04:56PM

I luv Mysteries!

Guess my $15 Borescope is just too wiggly...and of course the lense doesn't bend like a good Olympus... I would borrow from work ggg

We all seem to have missed it!

Engine is RD 65-7 non smog with 110 heads

Does anyone else see what appears to be brass shim stock under the seat?

When it knocked... no miss.. no Valve train noise.... ONLY the fanbelt would vibrate... Compression even in all 6. no blowby problems..





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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2018 05:07PM by MattNall.

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 09, 2018 05:11PM

This has been going on for over 5 years...2-3 owners... Ed was able to contact previous owner... was told it was Transmission noise... don't worry...

In the last year 500 miles approx... 60-70 sometimes... only knocked at idle to 1300 rpm... and not always..

Seat is so tight I cannot pry it out.... off to shop tomorrow





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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: August 11, 2018 05:25AM

To back up a bit, you think it has an Early gear on a Late crankshaft? How does that affect the flywheel/pressure plate/release bearing/pivot bolt recipe?

Valve seats that come out and go back in are mysterious. I had one last year that would come out when blipping the throttle but stay in with steady acceleration. A friend called when on a trip to Oshkosh describing the same scenario, he made it back to Grand Marais by taking it easy.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 11, 2018 07:39AM

Nope!! I was just asking. Being retired we are in no hurry..

It has the late cam / gear...

Couldn't find anyone to repair the head.. so I sourced a replacement.

Put everything back together...waiting on head.. then I'll fire it.





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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: August 11, 2018 08:45AM

The engine should have developed a miss when the seat ring was out of place then smoothed out when the ring worked itself back into the hole.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: August 11, 2018 09:39AM

It sure looks like there's a few spots on some of those combustion chambers where
there might not be quite enough clearance between the piston and head. I found in the past that I could get some noise if I had a .030" nominal clearance between the piston and head, as carbon deposits could fill that gap and cause a "hitting"
sound. I've talked to one person that had an engine where the valve seat was actually stuck to the valve and moved with it, and never had any noise and had no obvious symptoms of a dropped seat except for some engine roughness.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 11, 2018 10:37AM

steve c goodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The engine should have developed a miss when the
> seat ring was out of place then smoothed out when
> the ring worked itself back into the hole.
=================================================

Right! but no valvetrain noise either!

Only roughness was the fanbelt shook when banging... shorted each cylinder when idling / banging and all were equal!





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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2018 08:27PM by MattNall.

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 11, 2018 10:43AM

JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To back up a bit, you think it has an Early gear
> on a Late crankshaft? How does that affect the
> flywheel/pressure plate/release bearing/pivot bolt recipe?
===============================================================

We do! Although clutch worked and still works flawlessly ... there is a witness mark on the Clark's replacement 2 seal snout.





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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 14, 2018 03:51PM

Received $20 head at 1 pm... on by 3!, busy the next few days so may not fire until Fri.??





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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: RCSmith ()
Date: August 14, 2018 04:20PM

Lol
Had to read that twice

Ray C. Smith
'66 Corsa


Bergen County ,NJ

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: August 14, 2018 04:32PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Received $20 head at 1 pm... on by 3!

You received a ready to install, no valve grind, no valve guide or seal head for $20? Where are these deals when I'm in need?

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 14, 2018 06:04PM

You gotta have friends!! gggg





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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: August 15, 2018 10:15AM

From the OP, post #1

>>While the fan belt was off I checked the crank end play, .015 - .017, that seems like a lot to me, the manual specs out .002 - .007.<<

It would be foolish at this point to overlook excessive end play.

>>ONLY the fanbelt would vibrate<<

As he said, it had the vibration/noise with the fan belt off.

You need to keep looking and not because of any "while I'm there" thinking.

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 15, 2018 11:36AM

Quote
original Endplay measurement was wrong.... was done using the HB outer ring while engine was in the RS. Outer ring came off by hand after engine was removed

Gotta read every post!! ggg

This is not a couple of newbies... I've been repairing Vair engines since '63 Only had Dunecars until '74. Ed is a SBC builder... and has lots of experience with Aluminum.

This noise did not sound like a valve hitting a piston... and was only below 1300 rpm.... strange for sure! I've been using this as a "Mystery" for hopefully someone to guess correctly the cause..We sure didn't!

I'll fire it off in a couple of days...sad to say I have to "dig out" one area of my shop to hopefully find my ONE Flywheel / clutch....hopefully this afternoon...





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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2018 12:42PM by MattNall.

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: August 15, 2018 01:21PM

>> Sanman1st: June 01, 2018 08:34AM
........
I checked the crank end play on a old Corvair short block and it was .0025 -.003, I think the crank end play in mine is to much and causing the noise.<<

>>MattNall: August 06, 2018 10:05PM
Rod, original Endplay measurement was wrong.... was done using the HB outer ring while engine was in the RS. Outer ring came off by hand after engine was removed.<<

OK, I looked back, again. Now, show me where it says someone rechecked the endplay.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2018 01:25PM by Richard.

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Re: Strange engine noise
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 15, 2018 06:00PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today's find. Flange is eighth inch too far out!
> Crankgear is loose?
>
> Crank endplay rechecked at both ends.... turns
> out it's in spec!

> Turns out in the RS he was
> using the outer ring... which turned out to be
> loose!
================================================================

I must've texted that to someone and forgot to post it here! "oops"





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