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Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 13, 2007 07:22PM

The "Brake Thread" brings this up...

To properly adjust EM brakes:

NON Self adjusting [ hole in backing plate ]

REAR wheels need to be setting on the ground! or BOTH sides supported by jackstands under the lower A-arms or wheels on identical ramps!

This is true of ALL Corvair "Swingaxle" style IRS systems......as the axle /drum moves thru suspension travel..and the shoes are not parallel with the drums except in the normal ride height!

Parking / Emerengency brake MUST be backed off... LOOSE cables and make sure they retract into the drums!! The LEVER on the rear shoe MUST be all the way to the rear...

Then, and only then should you adjust the shoes....

On ALL 4 wheels....move the star adjuster until the shoes are LOCKED against the drums...

Now check the pedal ..it is HARD and HIGH...no movement past the freeplay? Your hydraulics are fine.... IF you have movement / sponginess..you need to BLEED

Then unadjust the stars 3-4 clicks..on each wheel..

Then Adjust the E-brake to be tight at ONLY 3 Clicks!! only 3!

You will have a nice system after doing this..

SELF adjusting brakes [ hole in front side of drum...requires wheel removal.

YOU MUST support the REARS on Jackstands under the A-arms...nothing else!

Slowly turn adjusters until the drum barely turns...no further as it is a pain to lever the Arm off the starwheel to allow you to unadjust...

Now do as was described for the NON Self adjusting brakes.

Happy Braking!!












MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: Larry ()
Date: September 13, 2007 08:03PM

Matt,
Excellent tip. Some may not want to take the time to do this but first and foremost it's a SAFETY issue and next it's the best way to ensure correct braking in the shortest time.

Larry Curtis
NTCA
CORSA
'63 Spyder (102 p/g)
'61 Lakewood

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 13, 2007 09:09PM

Thanks Larry! I hope it helps others enjoy their EM safely!

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: September 13, 2007 09:51PM


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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 13, 2007 10:04PM

richard1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That sounds way too easy. I can manage that on my
> alignment ramp or oil change ramps.
>
> Restoration en Bolivia
===========================================

And we cannot wait until you get that far!!!

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: rodger ()
Date: September 13, 2007 11:58PM

I'm curious, you said that the shoes and drums are not on parallel except when the tires are on the ground or on ramps. How can that be? There isn't a joint on the spindle, so the brake drum and brake shoes should always be on the same plane. The only exception would be where your front wheel bearings were loose, and the drum was wobbling on the hub. Or are Corvairs really that different??? Thanks, Rodger

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 14, 2007 12:03AM

Fronts are normal!

Rears :

Drums are positioned by the axles....

backing plate / shoes by the lower A-arm....

Why EMs / FC's have hard to find expensive SWIVEL bearings...

put your car on a rack or jack it up on the body... look at the gap of the drum to backing plate...

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Did I just type "spheriangular"?
Posted by: Andrew ()
Date: September 14, 2007 12:09AM

The brake backing plates is attached to the control arms. The drums are attached to the axle flanges. The axle u joints and the lower control arms do not pivot at the same place. This lets the axle (and also the shoes which are perpendicular it) swing in a slightly different arc than the control arm. This is also why we have double roller - spheriangular axle bearings...to allow for misalignment. It works similar to a heim joint....kinda. If you adjust the brakes with the weight off the springs then the shoes are already binding to the shoes, but at ride height they would be loose.

Actually, IIRC, you adjust the rear brake an extra click or 2 out to allow for the misalignment. Someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

And yes our Corvairs really are that different. Thats one of the reasons the axle bearings are so expensive, because they only fit EM Corvairs....maybe a year or two of early Tempest too?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 12:10AM by Andrew.

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: rodger ()
Date: September 14, 2007 01:55AM

MMM with that swivel bearing in there they must have been trying to keep the wheel perpendicular to the road as the axle traveled in it's arc. But what happens if the brake is applied when the drum and shoes are not parallel? Will that promote strange braking.? SO, how expensive are these bearings? Are they available? Are they greasable to prolong life? Before I go out and buy a Corvair, I want to get an edjumaction on 'em, don't cha know! Thanks, Rodger

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 14, 2007 02:12AM

No real problem braking... unless you are about to spin!!! ggg

approx $300 new $100-$200 used / rebuilt [ sorta]

Yes they are greasable and rebuldable with simple hand tools..

Buy a Late model 65-9 same as Corvette!

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: cepak ()
Date: September 14, 2007 03:25PM

Thanks Matt,

I will attempt this adjustment when I get home this evening.

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: Andrew ()
Date: September 26, 2007 03:57AM

Matt,

I'm curious as to your method.

Service manual says to tighten adjusters until "heavy uniform drag" is felt, then back off adjusters 12 notches on front, and 15 notches on rears.

You say to adjust until the shoes are LOCKED to the drums. Do mean the wheel is locked up...won't turn?

If you're doing this with the wheels on the ground, can you just leave it in neutral and try to push the car?

And why do you say to back off only 3 or 4 notches?

Not saying you are wrong.....just asking for explanation.



Pedal is low in the 61 and I have no leaks and MC is full. Time to adjust. Firat time for manual adjusters. Always had "self" adjusters on other cars. I have a long driveway....neighbors think I'm nutty backing rapidly down the drive and standing on the brakes repeatedly.

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 26, 2007 04:23AM

You have a 61 non self adjusting?

You're doing it with the wheels on?

Then not locked up..but heavy drag.....uniform!! gg

Then only back off until the wheel by hand....moves somewhat easily..

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: Shaun ()
Date: September 26, 2007 12:55PM

Matt, the rears are a special case as you know, but...
If you set them with the wheels in the driving position they become too tight when you go over a bump and the suspension compresses. I did this years ago and it took me a couple of minutes to figure out why it felt like the car slowed down when I went over a dip in the road. It's because the brakes were applying.

You need to set them with the wheels hanging, just as you would a normal car, then when the car goes back on the ground you have the necessary clearance to allow suspension movement.

yea, Vairily ... Shaun

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes per matt nall, i have a question
Posted by: GWLee ()
Date: October 22, 2013 12:54AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The "Brake Thread" brings this up...
>
> To properly adjust EM brakes:
>
> NON Self adjusting [ hole in backing plate ]
>
> REAR wheels need to be setting on the ground! or
> BOTH sides supported by jackstands under the lower
> A-arms or wheels on identical ramps!
>
> This is true of ALL Corvair "Swingaxle" style IRS
> systems......as the axle /drum moves thru
> suspension travel..and the shoes are not parallel
> with the drums except in the normal ride height!
>
> Parking / Emerengency brake MUST be backed off...
> LOOSE cables and make sure they retract into the
> drums!! The LEVER on the rear shoe MUST be all
> the way to the rear...
>
> Then, and only then should you adjust the
> shoes....
>
> On ALL 4 wheels....move the star adjuster until
> the shoes are LOCKED against the drums...
>
> Now check the pedal ..it is HARD and HIGH...no
> movement past the freeplay? Your hydraulics are
> fine.... IF you have movement / sponginess..you
> need to BLEED
>
> Then unadjust the stars 3-4 clicks..on each
> wheel..
>
> Then Adjust the E-brake to be tight at ONLY 3
> Clicks!! only 3!
>
> You will have a nice system after doing this..
>
> SELF adjusting brakes [ hole in front side of
> drum...requires wheel removal.
>
> YOU MUST support the REARS on Jackstands under
> the A-arms...nothing else!
>
> Slowly turn adjusters until the drum barely
> turns...no further as it is a pain to lever the
> Arm off the starwheel to allow you to unadjust...
>
> Now do as was described for the NON Self
> adjusting brakes.
>
> Happy Braking!!
>

OK I have a question on this post Matt.
I have been adjusting the brakes on my 60 coupe. I could adjust the brakes per the shop manual with 15 clicks on the rear and so forth. But when I adjusted the emergency brakes, they didn't hold and was not capable of holding anything.
Now it has been a very long time since I adjusted brakes on any car with drums, without self adjusters. So my question is, based on the manual and the method you posted, if you have the wheels on the ground, how do you know if the wheels are locked up, by your method? I guess there is a step there that I am missing.
I have adjusted the brakes per shop manual and I can only assume they are correct based on the 12 clicks and 15 clicks. But the emergency brake is now holding but I will not know for sure I guess if the brakes will stop properly until I drive it and see if they pull or stop evenly, and the emergency brake will be a wait and see. But at this moment the e brake feels like it is good now.

I like the simplistic nature of your method posted just having a brain fart on how you can tell if the brakes are locked tight with the wheels on the ground.

I have never had such a difficult time adjusting brakes, as I have the last two days working on the corvair.

Not a slam just trying to make sense of your post.

Thanks

Lee Adkins

A Cave Man car
1960 2dr Coupe with pg
Color Tasco Turq.
With white top.

Catlettsburg,
In the Beautiful state of
North/East KY!

Not the best pic, but the only I had from then!

Front profile now!

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 22, 2013 12:58AM

If on the ground or ramps.... when the wheel won't move...

I never said the Factory method was wrong....this is just another way





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: GWLee ()
Date: October 22, 2013 01:17PM

Matt sorry I didn't mean your method was flawed or replaced the manual. I was trying to grasp how you checked the wheels to see if they where tight enough, if the car was on the ground.

Actually the way you shared would seem easier than counting all the clicks front and back. On past brake work I would tighten the adjuster until I felt even heavy drag and then lossen them up some. It is the first time I have adjusted the corvair brakes in more than 30 years and then I didn't have a service manual. So I just tightened them till heavy drag and then backed off a little and that was mostly all. I am aware it was not the proper way, but at the time I didn't know any different.

Sorry if you took it I was questioning your way. Just looking for an easier way.

Thanks

Lee Adkins

A Cave Man car
1960 2dr Coupe with pg
Color Tasco Turq.
With white top.

Catlettsburg,
In the Beautiful state of
North/East KY!

Not the best pic, but the only I had from then!

Front profile now!

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: strangecars ()
Date: October 22, 2013 02:26PM

[corvaircenter.com]

This might help. Torque both drums to be the same

Steve Morton
1967 Monza 110/4spd
Corsa Member Emmett, Idaho

"If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong"

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: GWLee ()
Date: October 22, 2013 02:46PM

Thanks Steve I was the one that made that tool, sometime last year. I had honestly forgotten about it, since it had been so long since I made it. I will get it out after I get the car on the road and check everything again.

Right now I am just trying to get things setup and ready this week. I am going to get the cars registration taken care of today. I have got insurance on the car as of yesterday. I still need to get the windshield installed and as soon as it is done, I will be able to drive it, though not far just yet, this weekend.

First time since 1976-77.
Well I guess that isn't accurate since I did drive it home in 1997, just after Dad passed away, drove it 12 miles. But everything has been gone through and restored.

Thanks for reminding me about the tool. It worked great on another drum brake job I did with it and the brakes on it where even on both sides, until the adjusters kicked in the fine tune the brakes.

Lee Adkins

A Cave Man car
1960 2dr Coupe with pg
Color Tasco Turq.
With white top.

Catlettsburg,
In the Beautiful state of
North/East KY!

Not the best pic, but the only I had from then!

Front profile now!

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Re: Adjusting EM brakes
Posted by: stabac ()
Date: October 22, 2013 09:18PM

Never had my wheels even off, everything seems to work fine......is a '63 self adjusting front and rear????

Frank
Just Enough Knowledge To Get Myself In Trouble
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
1963 SPYDER TURBO CPE
Grandson #2

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