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Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: May 13, 2018 11:10PM

This was just covered in a recent thread, but I can not find it.
In over 20 years of Corvair driving, I have never had the problem . . . until now!
Why?
Why NOW?
It was a warm day today, but not excessive. Upper 70's-low 80's maybe.
Came off the freeway, drove about 1.5 miles, stopped at A&W for a bite to eat.
1/2 an hour to 45 minutes later we go to leave and she dies as I try to pull out of the parking lot.
The only thing I have changed, is the starter, and I know that, that would not do it!
So what has happened?
Premium fuel.
Timing is correct. Got Seth's beauty in there.
Carbs have the full gasket/spacer sandwich.

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: Murphy ()
Date: May 14, 2018 03:07AM

I saw something the other day where they talked about ethanol being a factor with vapor lock.

Is you car running hotter than normal? Is it cooling properly?

Regards,
Murphy

65 Monza Coupe
61 500 Coupe (under Construction) Getting close.

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: j3m ()
Date: May 14, 2018 04:30AM

It could possibly be that todays PREMIUM has a greater % of alcohol than just a few years ago.
Vapor lock will be much more likely during the peak Summertime heat, or anywhere from Arizona across the lower 48 to the South Carolina coast anytime between April 1st and October 15th when daily high temps typically approach 90F. Expect 95F to 105F between mid May and mid September along that southern most band of the lower 48.
Don't say that there ain't nothing you can do! If you live where you are gonna have hellacious temperatures, you need to UPGRADE to EFI. One call to Clarks and you can become a BROWNIE. One call, thats all.
Nothing with the world's best carb system for the Corvair will improve this situation significantly. EFI will. EFI will improve your driving experience as well as providing reliability that can't be matched when using carbs and a dizzy.
Even if you were the CEO of Exxon-Mobil, you wouldn't be able to get your refineries to custom blend a suitable enough "blend" of premium pump gasoline for most carburretted Corvairs.
You are largely stuck with a fixed-frozen in time cylinder head (that for practical cost reasons has never seen any technological improvements..) and you are stuck with the Summer blend and Winter blend of premium pump gasoline that is much different than gasoline from 1972.
Count your blessings that there is a great and inexpensive EFI solution that is one phone call away by just telephoning Clarks Corvair.
Let the computer do what the best human cannot do with a screwdriver, wrench, or other tuning tools! Ted Brown made a massive improvement in Corvair driveability and reliabilty. Why would you not consider such an important upgrade especially if you drive your Corvair?
Fifty plus year old carbs and dizzys that were less than adequate when the car was brand new on the Chevrolet dealer's lot in the Sixties when HighTest Leaded Premium gasoline was about $0.32 per gallon, are not going to be adequate today given today's gasoline and 50+ years of well worn carbs & dizzys. You aren't likely to ever see aftermarket cylinder head design improvements because during the Corvair heyday, the Corvair faithful wasn't large enough. Today, you have a fraction of that and the remaining faithful is made up largely of fossils in the 65 to 85 year old age group, though the active youth membership was born just before the Corvair arrived up to about the release of the 2nd generation late model and Nader's Unsafe At Any Speed book....so the youth portion of the membership ranges in age between 62 years old and about 55 years old here in mid 2018.............
It can certainly be said that Corvair folks have hard heads because many of the thick as a brick boneheads have continued to cling to the mechanical replacement fuel pumps in the past decade despite the growing warnings that the probability was very high that the replacement mechanical pump would leak (either internally or externally) and that the smartest generally accepted solution since at least the turn of the century has been to install an electric fuel pump. Well it is true that some are just slow and must experience things and learn the hard way as those are from the camp that believed that how GM originally built it was the perfect way until at least ten years after Larry Claypool, CLARKS, Dale mfg with the bolted flywheels, or anyone else with significant improvements. The "slow" folks just would keep doing as they always had done until they would see the light after numerous breakdowns and being stranded on the roadside because of not believing these improvements were actually improvements.......you know because if by golly if Ed Cole and GM did it like it was done when brand new, there surely couldn't ever be any improvements because you know that GM made everything perfect on the Corvair....
The Corvair faithful also has some of the most talented and sharpest MacGyvers that the automobile world has ever seen. Though much different in their approach than the "slow" folks, they share the deepest love for the same rear engined aircooled Chevy and the other common denominator is that they are still very frugal.
Don't overlook the huge technological improvements that are proven. Don't be so miserly that you accept problems that have been eliminated with computer controlled electronic fuel injection........who needs carbs, leaky mechanical fuel pumps and dizzys with curves that are barely in the ballpark at best...........vapor lock can become a thing of the past.....if you forget the past and update to improvements that weren't available in 1965. You know what, premium pump gasoline is nowhere near what you could get in 1965 and that just makes it even more difficult for your Corvair to cope using its original carbs, dizzy, etc with today's gasoline. You say well, okay I can rejet the carbs and recurve the dizzy and I'll get a mechanical fuel pump that doesn't leak........yeah you can do that but you know what, no matter how good you do get it, the BROWN EFI way with its computer and the distributorless ignition and electric fuel pump...................you can't come close to the reliabilty and driveability that EFI provides.
Sooner or later, you'll wish you'd upgraded to EFI. Corvair folks are lucky that they have a superb, turn-key, bolt-on solution that is both inexpensive and proven. Many antique car makes have no existing bolt on solutions that can be purchased.
One call, thats all.....to CLARKS....................time for EFI !!

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 14, 2018 04:46AM

Have you added gas since the weather warmed up? If you are still running on winter blend that will evaporate and boil at a lower temp than summer gas.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: glivorsi ()
Date: May 14, 2018 05:50AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you added gas since the weather warmed up? If
> you are still running on winter blend that will
> evaporate and boil at a lower temp than summer
> gas.


That's exactly what I was thinking. You may still have winter blend in your tank or your local station still has it in their tank.

Greg in Wildwood, MO (part of the St. Louis urban sprawl)

1965 Monza Vert 110PG, Crocus Yellow with black interior and top

2014 Honda Accord V6 (DD)
2017 Honda Pilot (wifemobile)
2012 Chevy Sonic 1.8L (kid's car)
1997 Honda CBR1100XX
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 (no longer own)

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 14, 2018 07:41AM

Did you pour your Rootbeer on the Fuelpump?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: May 14, 2018 08:07AM

Sorry folks, but ethanol is MORE resistant to vapor lock than plain gasoline. Yet you still read articles that say ethanol causes the vapor lock problem.

After "lead" additives were removed (a long time ago now) fuel refining to raise octane resulted in gasoline that is more volatile, more prone to vapor lock.

One of the greatest tragedies of life is the murder of a beautiful theory by a gang of brutal facts.
– Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: MtnVairMike ()
Date: May 14, 2018 08:15AM

How long did it take to get it to restart and run?
Which car were you driving?

Since both are 66 or newer is the coil still living over the cutout for the AIR tubes on the right side? That is a hot air blower aimed right at the coil which can cause it to go intermittent after heat soaking. Ask me how I know?

Hint: car idled in a parking lot for 10 minutes after a interstate run and died right while I was standing there. Had to raise the hood and cool for 10 minutes to get a restart.

New coil and blocked the AIR cutout and all is good.
Thanks

Mike

1966 Monza Convertible, 140HP-4 speed, Ermine White

Others in the menagerie...
72 Corvette Stingray, 58K miles, owned since 86
72 MGB, 112K miles, bought from original owner in 09
78 Chevy pickup, 124K miles, bought new in 78
93 Corvette, LT1/6spd, 210K miles, daily driver since 96

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 14, 2018 08:22AM

I somewhat agree, all of the stuff put into modern gas to make it emissions efficient is most of the problem. The ethanol is more of a storage and water/ corrosion issue. I can get 90 Recreational non ethanol, but it is every bit as heat sensitive. I use it during the winter and storage months then go back to 93 ethanol blend, like right about now. The ethanol blend seems to work better in my turbo application as it provides more evaporative cooling and burns at a lower temp.

As for carbs. ALMOST all, lawn movers/tractors, small outboards, chain saws, portable generators, small cycles and scooters are still being produced with carbs. So lets get off this nothing but FI will work! The vast majority of Vairs and other classic cars are still running fine with carb.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: vacorvairlover ()
Date: May 14, 2018 09:19AM

Good Day,

I agree that Ethanol doesn't increase vapor lock, but perhaps a nest somewhere that is obstructing airflow and thus causing higher than normal engine temps seems like a very real possibility. the excessive temps could cause vapor lock or as stated earlier, coil issues. Just my 2 cents worth

John Garrison
Roanoke VA.
1964 corvair spyder convertable
1965 Corvair Monza 110 auto coupe soon to be my daily driver
2014 Ram 1500 5.7L Hemi
2018 Re-designed Jeep Compass Trailhawk

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: May 14, 2018 01:35PM

Murphy - yes she does seem to be running a bit hotter than normal.

j3M - you are a NUT! EFI, blah blah blah. . . . I do not even bother to read your posts anymore. Have you ever considered becoming a author of text books? Or maybe books to help a person sleep?

jjohnsonjo & glivorsi - It is a daily driver. She gets new fuel EVERY week. The station I get my fuel at gets their tank refilled at least once a week, and sometime twice a week. SO, unless the winter/Summer blend switch JUST happened, it is not my fuel.
and X2 on the Carb VS EFI crap!

Matt - I am not sure how it is that you know that ROOTbeer is the only "beer" that I drink, but no I did not spill any on the pump. smileys with beer
A&W ROCKS ! ! !

66vairman - thumbs up

MtnVairMike - Good tip! But I moved the coil and blocked that hole years ago.

vacorvairlover - I will double check that possibility, but not a likely culprit as it is daily driven and a critter would not have had much time to build a nest between runs.

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 14, 2018 02:32PM

Well Mel, two years ago I broke down and added an in line Airtex electric for cold and hot starts. Mine vapor locks almost every time I park it hot, but it a turbo. When I ceramic coated the logs it got worse. I suspect they store way more heat now and release it when parked. The fuel pressure gauge on my regulator is at zero during hot starts until I hit the E pump switch.

Two more things you can check since it happened over a short period of time is the short fuel hose just on the other side of the fire wall. Also, run you pump by hand and see if it holds a vacuum. The inlet valve may getting weak or loose.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: stitch ()
Date: May 14, 2018 02:38PM

The fuel pressure gauge on my regulator is at zero during hot starts until I hit the E pump switch.

I'm a big fan of having both. Not only for vapor lock, but 2 week intervals iffin she's not started...

Under dash switch for electric..smoking smiley

"If you can't fix it with a Hammer, you have an Electrical problem."
Stitch...
Schertz, Texas.
(Smallish town/burg 17 mi. NE of San Antonio)

!967.. 4th body
8th off the line

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: May 14, 2018 02:44PM

That is classic vapor lock on a Corvair. I also added an electric fuel pump to my 66 AC sedan, just to cure this. Switch on when needed, run mechanical the rest of the time.

Matt was asking a real question. I have gotten several Corvairs that were suffering heat soak vapor lock to start using this method. Walk back into store and buy a non-sugared drink or cup of ice. Return to car, place ice on fuel pump. When cold to the touch, start car. It once happened at the hospital with the AC car, got into the street before it quit. Hey, they have a refreshment stand, bought drink, chilled pump, motored on to work.

BTW, this hot soak vapor lock started for me and my customers back in the early 80s. Then it went away for a long period, now it is back.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 14, 2018 05:02PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Matt - I am not sure how it is that you know that
> ROOTbeer is the only "beer" that I drink, but no I
> did not spill any on the pump. smileys with beer
> A&W ROCKS ! ! !

===================================================

Where you been bubba!!! ggg

To FIX Vaporloc.... you cool the fuelpump on our Vairs... REALLY





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: May 14, 2018 05:09PM

OHHHHH!
DOH! That makes sense!
Dumb me, I was thinking "Gas Pump" as in gas station fuel pump!
Like how in the world would spilling soda while I filled it make any difference?
Never heard of that trick before, but I like it!
Will remember that from now on.
Thanks guys!

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 14, 2018 05:11PM

Mel... or crack the 5/16" inlet line to release it.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 14, 2018 05:22PM

My Dad used it on or 57 Chevy when I was a teenager. Stopped in a state park in the mountains on a hot day. Got a bucket of water from a cold spring, WA LA.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: 7004doorL ()
Date: May 14, 2018 05:45PM

Ya, when my 1960 used to Vaporlok and I was able to get a bag of Ice
and put it on top of the mechanical fuel pump and wait a little,
it would start and get me back home. Ice freezes as it melts. So even if the belt cut the bag it was still OK.
Sometimes I would get the Ice before leaving work and drive 45 minutes to get back home. Otherwise it would die in the same Block a Mile from Home.

Once on the Interstate it vaporlok'd and was close enough to walk and get 3 bags of Ice. One for the fuel pump and one, ea. to wrap around each carbureator.
Wait a little and it restarted and I drove an Hour back home. My passenger could not believe it worked.

Otherwise I had to wait an Hour. I even used frozen hamburger patties once.

Mike
1960 4 Door
80HP PG

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Re: Vapor lock sad smiley
Posted by: curt ()
Date: May 14, 2018 06:08PM

For wha it is worth: Back in the 1970's my neighbor,a chemistry profesor, said add a pint of diesel fuel to a full tank of gas. He said this will stop vapor lock. Also for what it is worth: Someone a few years ago, wrote on this forum, higher octane fuel more likely to vapor lock.

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