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New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 03, 2018 11:48AM

Hello all,

I recently acquired a 1964 Monza coupe which I will be restoring as I have time and resources. Overall it is in decent condition, no major body damage and it runs and drives well, but it does have some significant rust damage which will need to be repaired. I am a complete novice at body work, so I will likely be seeking plenty of advice from you all on how best to proceed.


A quick vairstory of the car for anyone interested (feel free to skipwinking smiley):

I know very little of the early history, but it had factory AC and rumor has it that it was used for transporting remains between various funeral homes here in Georgia and the Carolinas.

Based on show plaques/paperwork found in the trunk, the car was restored sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. I believe this work was done by an aircraft mechanic named Ron. I believe his daughter drove the car thru and after college. My brother bought the car from her sometime around 2007-08

The car served as my brother's daily driver for about a year, but when the engine started to run poorly he did not have time to work on it, so it sat in his driveway for about 10 years. During that time it was used by my nephews and the various neighbor kids as a jungle gym, and the engine vents served as a drying rack for enough mud pies to feed the Prussian Army indefinitely.

While doing a massive purge in preparation for moving, my brother said he was going to scrap the Corvair if I did not want it. Being the type that saves canceled checks, I was horrified at the thought of the car being parted out or crushed, so I loaded up my truck with some tools and headed to my brothers place to save the vair at all costs. The thing was unbelievable dirty inside and out, but once I got the rat colony evicted pressure washed it it appeared to be in quite decent shape.



Kurt J.
Atlanta, Ga
"Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry ..."

'64 Monza Coupe 110hp 4spd

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 03, 2018 11:53AM

Looks great to me!! Have Fun and let's seewhy the engine is running poorly..

Most Corvair engine do not need a "rebuild"





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 03, 2018 12:07PM

Sorry MattNall, your too quick for me! I hit "post" by accident before I was done writing. Here is the rest ...

Turned out the only problem with the engine was that the fuel pump was completely clogged with junk, so after taking that apart and cleaning it out the engine started right up and ran beautifully! Of course my brother wanted to keep it after this spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Anyway, I was able to put air in the tires and drive it the 20 miles or so home no problem. Boy was I happy!

So now I am sorting thru it and trying to see what needs to be done.

Here are some pics:

Just getting it running:






After some clean up:




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2018 12:12PM by kcjengr.

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 03, 2018 12:30PM

Score!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: May 03, 2018 03:22PM

thumbs upthumbs up
Good job!

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: MoxyRamone ()
Date: May 03, 2018 03:35PM

Definitely a good starting point! A little work and that could be a sweet daily driver.

John Carver
Landrum, South Carolina

1964 Monza Convertible

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: May 03, 2018 04:40PM

The car cleaned up nicely. There is a good club in Atlanta and numerous Georgia residents are members here too. You should join CORSA (parent club) too, they help with all of the events the local clubs organize. You can find contact info for your local club too, Look here www.corvair.org

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 03, 2018 05:19PM

Thank you all for the comments!

Steve, I will defiantly look into joining Corvair Atlanta and CORSA. Thanks for the info!

Cheers,
Kurt

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 03, 2018 09:27PM

Yesterday evening I started trying to patch some rust holes in the passenger side door.
This evening I finished up and got the welds ground flush.
I tired to cut out enough to get back to solid metal and then used my el cheapo HF flux wire welder to tack in the patches.
The patches are a little sunken compared to the rest of the skin. I guess that happened as the metal cooled.
On the bright side, it's better then being proud as I can use filler to even it out.

What kind of filler would you all suggest?
I used bondo when I repainted my milling machine, but it seems soft and to have poor adhesion.
(I'm sore about it as I put a big gouge in the mill a few days ago, and I did not knock it very hard at all sad smiley)
That was on bare clean cast iron, maybe it would do better on an auto body ...



I used magnets from old mac lids to hold the patches in place.
All that junk earns its keep every now and then smiling bouncing smiley


I did not want to warp anything, so I just spot welded around and around until it was mostly complete.


Three patches near the banging post. I guess its good they blend in!


The finished door. Still some pin holes, but I figure I can just fill those?


Should I have done anything before welding in the patches to prevent further rust, like trying to paint the inside?

They door was pretty straight forward as the sections I had to patch were pretty much flat.
What I need to work on next is the rocker right behind the frond passenger side wheel.
Its seen better days.


The area seems to be double layers, and the back piece seems to be in decent shape.
Would it be OK to use body filler here instead of trying to find/fabricate a patch panel?
I am not going for a concourse grade restoration, but I want something that will last as an everyday driver.

Thanks all,
Kurt

BTW, I did not want the pictures to take up too much room.
Click to see full size image.



Kurt J.
Atlanta, Ga
"Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry ..."

'64 Monza Coupe 110hp 4spd

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 03, 2018 09:33PM

Inside of doors.. Por-15 goes on over rust...widely used here..


The style of welding you are using is normal for patches... go back and make another 50 spotwelds..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2018 09:34PM by MattNall.

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 03, 2018 10:08PM

Thanks! POR-15 on order.



Kurt J.
Atlanta, Ga
"Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry ..."

'64 Monza Coupe 110hp 4spd

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: moomba32 ()
Date: May 04, 2018 01:59AM

Pretty good looking body work for a novice, I bet the car is going to be a lot of fun for you. Too bad you just missed the show in Helen Ga, there are other coming up a little further away, if you haven't been to a Corvair show you need to go to one, it's a full weekend and well worth attending. Keep up the great work.

Don Marlowe
66 Monza 2Dr 140/pg
64 Spyder convertible now, 110/pg
Eutawville SC

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: red monza ()
Date: May 04, 2018 06:25AM

I am not a fan of POR 15....and if you use it...don't let the sun hit it.

I prefer to KILL THE RUST first with a rust converter vs just covering over it, it turns rust to black oxide, the next day I paint it with Rustoleum gloss Paint...sometimes by brush in a can and sometimes in the spray can....in 20 years have never had a rust back thru problem....its cheaper, easier to use and much better. In my early POR-15 days, you had to use the whole can/container of Por-15 at one time or it was dried out.

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: May 04, 2018 03:15PM

What kind of filler would you all suggest?
I used Bondo when I repainted my milling machine, but it seems soft and to have poor adhesion.
(I'm sore about it as I put a big gouge in the mill a few days ago, and I did not knock it very hard at all sad smiley)
That was on bare clean cast iron, maybe it would do better on an auto body ...


If your Bondo turned out soft, I would guess that it was either too old, or you did not use enough catalyst.

I used magnets from old mac lids to hold the patches in place.
All that junk earns its keep every now and then smiling smiling bouncing smiley


What are "old mac lids"?

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 04, 2018 10:18PM

Don: I was able to spend a few hours at the show in Helen last Saturday afternoon.
It was perfect timing, I learned enough at the show to be able to resurrect the Vair that was sitting in my brothers yard and drive it home last Sunday!

red monza: Thanks for the warning regarding POR-15 and UV.
I already ordered a quart so I will experiment with it on non critical applications and see how it holds up.

It is great to learn that Rustoleum works well long term in auto applications!
I keep one of those $9 HF HVLP gun filled with Rustoleum Pro gray and Valspar hardener on the bench.
Its tough as nails with the hardener and dries in a few hours.
Since the gun is always ready to go its as convenient as a rattle can (and a lot cheaper!).
I have not cleaned the gun since last July, and it is still not clogged, but it's not pretty either!

I'll get a gal of black Rustoleum and set up another gun.

Mel: I used an oldish gallon of bondo on the mill, so maybe that was the problem.
I also may have been stingy with the catalyst ...
I will give bondo another chance unless something significantly better is recommended.

Oh, the magnets come from the magnetic catches in old mac book pro laptop lids.
They are really strong neodymium type, great to have around the shop.
Thankfully Macintosh has not yet perfected a magnet that completely looses its usefulness after a few years grinning smiley



Kurt J.
Atlanta, Ga
"Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry ..."

'64 Monza Coupe 110hp 4spd

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: red monza ()
Date: May 05, 2018 06:29AM

Kurt....here are some photos etc of my progress on my 64 conv...

1. Photo of 3 cans....one is rust killer, Dyna is short hair fiberglass filler, tiger hair is long strand. The wheel well photo was fixed in the back with fiberglass cloth, the metal was treated with the rust converter, then filled with LONG HAIR....when it was dried down, I used Dyna short hair fiberglass filler and sanded that down with 36 grit green board sandpaper. Once I get it pretty much looking good, I will go over it with EVERCOAT plain bondo filler, then primer.

In summary....Rust killer,next day Rustolum,long strand, then short strand. Long strand is hard to work with but very very strong, both fiberglass fillers are water proof/resistant.

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: red monza ()
Date: May 05, 2018 06:50AM

Kurt....my progress con't

Here is the photo of my front fender just like yours...I used 2 pieces of 22 ga weldable metal...it is curved correctly but not seen in the photo. I have enough weld spots on these panels...too many and you will warp the metal and have to re-do it all...and when you sand down the welds, if too many, you will warp the sheet metal again...so my fix is not too many spot welds...this area is not under pressure or anything and have never had a problem with any of my welds...the 49 chevy photo above has patch panel welds just like these in my photo..no more....I put way too many in the hood when I shaved it and warped the hood...took forever to get it fixed back straight and get rid of the oil can dent.

When I cut out the rusted metal, you will find a hard rubber type membrane behind the panel...I had to cut it out to be able to put in my patch panels. I will now sand down the welds,put long strand in the bad area not fixed, put short stand fiberglass over the repair, then reg EVERCOAT bondo over that.

You can see where the rust converter turned part of the metal BLACK...that is now black oxide...not rust.

IMPORTANT: I use a weld thru zinc primer on the back of the patch panels to help prevent rust. I get most of my stuff from a pro paint shop...you get junk usuall y at auto jobbers.

If you want to discuss anything further...PM me and I will give you my phone number. Jimmy in Asheville NC



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2018 06:59AM by red monza.

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Re: New Project: '64 Monza Coupe, 110hp 4spd
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 15, 2018 09:57AM

Jimmy, Thank you very much! That is excellent info.
Seeing how you were able to repair that rusted out wheel well gives me a lot of confidence!
Thankfully I don't think I have anything nearly that badly rotten.

Zinc primer on the back side before welding is a great idea!
Darn it, I even have a can kicking around. Oh well, I will do that for any other patches I put in.



Kurt J.
Atlanta, Ga
"Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry ..."

'64 Monza Coupe 110hp 4spd

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Progress Update
Posted by: kcjengr ()
Date: May 15, 2018 07:04PM

Over the weekend I managed to rearrange and compactify my 1.75 car garage shop enough to be able to pull the Vair in and put it on stands.
I was doubtful I'd be able to fit it in and still have enough room to work, but it's not that bad.
My shop is like one of those clown cars ...
I now have a Bridgeport, medium sized CNC mill, two engine lathes, a vertical and a horizontal bandsaw, table saw, jointer, planer, router table, blast cabinet, and now a Corvair all crammed in!



When I was at Horrible Freight getting jack stands I also picked up a compression tester.
It confirmed my suspicion that the uneven cranking was due to a weak cylinder.
Cylinder | Pressure
-------------------
     1   |   118
     2   |   118
     3   |   120
     4   |   122
     5   |    5
     6   |   120

Good news is all the cylinders but #5 are consistent and within 20psi of the 130psi spec.
Starter is weak, so it may actually get closer to 130psi with a stronger starter.

I blew air into #5 and found that it comes out of the carb, so seems a leaky intake is the culprit.
Is there anything I can do about that without pulling the odd side head?
I slacked off the #5 intake rocker arm nut, but it made no difference.

While I had the plugs out for the compression test I replaced them with new NGK B6HS.
These were longer than the old plugs by a bit, I guess that's OK?




Kurt J.
Atlanta, Ga
"Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry ..."

'64 Monza Coupe 110hp 4spd

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Re: Progress Update
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 15, 2018 07:49PM

Most likely a dropped valve seat... sorry...

Yup you replaced a 3/8" plug with the proper 1/2"....


Just remove the long carb stud and lower the rear of the engine enough to get the head off..

Note.. there's most likely a hidden inner bolt on the Heater duct...





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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