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Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: April 16, 2018 12:29PM

UGH.... was heading out for a nice drive this past Sat. Just warming up the turbo when I heard a rock hit the pan - must have driven over it on the road. Then shifting gears suddenly got more difficult. It was really hard to catch 3rd so I made a quick U turn and kept it in second gear... drove about 8 miles home (lucky to catch one stop light and made a sketchy yellow light left turn on the way). Some folks just don't like you going 30mph in front of them... I waived a lot. It was still shifting into 1st/2nd as I drove up to the workshop but really difficult.

Fast Forward to this morning. Pulled back the carpet and the two under-the-dash pulleys looked OK. Removed the belly pan to inspect the cable pulley and viola! cable strands are not supposed to be broken and coming apart now are they. That front shift rod bushing is pretty shabby also. eye rolling smiley

The parts list looks like this so far... Clutch cable, clutch pulleys, front shift rod bushing. Any other "while I'm in there" parts suggestions?

ps: now I know what color my Blue Spyder was when GM built it. grinning smiley







Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2018 12:30PM by kmart356.

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: April 16, 2018 02:16PM

First, learn to drive without using the clutch. It involves "double clutching" and a sense of engine speed vs road speed vs gear speed in the transmission.

You can shift through all the gears without the clutch with practice. You will need to shut off the engine in neutral, then put transmission in first, then engage starter to take off.

Practice while the car still shifts good, not after the cable breaks. Learning by fire is not as easy!winking smiley

Your shopping list is good. You might not need all the pulleys.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: April 16, 2018 02:52PM

If you drive it frequently get an NOS or good used cable,better yet make your own as the repops dont last very long from my experience. Mike

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: thewolfe ()
Date: April 16, 2018 02:57PM

Uh oh. Perfect time to go hydraulic!

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: April 16, 2018 03:23PM

If you anywhere close a good marina with sail boats, take the whole thing there and see if they will crimp a marine quality cable for you.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: April 16, 2018 06:18PM

While you are under the car, be sure to inspect the condition of the shift
coupler and pin. If they are worn, now is a good time to replace those items,
the difference in feel is amazing between having a worn out coupler and pin
vs a new set. Better yet is to find one of those billet aluminum 2 piece couplers... my prototype has been on my car since the late 90's and is still just as tight and positive as the day I put it in.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: April 16, 2018 07:06PM

Frank DuVal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First, learn to drive without using the clutch. It
> involves "double clutching"
and a sense of engine
> speed vs road speed vs gear speed in the
> transmission.
>
> You can shift through all the gears without the
> clutch with practice. You will need to shut off
> the engine in neutral, then put transmission in
> first, then engage starter to take off.
>
> Practice while the car still shifts good, not
> after the cable breaks. Learning by fire is not as
> easy!winking smiley
>
> Your shopping list is good. You might not need all
> the pulleys.

Uh, how do you "double clutch" with using the clutch?
Can't be done.

What you are referring to is "speed shifting" or "power shifting".
And I completely agree.
Anyone who drives a stick should know how to start their car, and go up, and down through ALL the gears with-out touching the clutch pedal.

My mothers car lost a clutch slave cylinder one night as I headed home from down-town.
We lived in the outskirts of town, and I had to drive that 5-speed through streets with multiple stop lights and up and down a couple hills.
Fortunately, my older brother had taught me how to drive without a clutch before he had grown-up and moved out. thumbs upthumbs up

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 16, 2018 07:14PM

I thought it was "Double clutching"....How you shift a non-synchro gearbox!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: April 16, 2018 09:41PM

Well, I typed Clutching.confused smiley

Yes, it is the same procedure as double clutching, just without using the clutch for downshifting. Slip transmission into neutral, rev engine to proper speed, pull lever into lower gear.

Of course, usually you do not need to downshift while driving with a broken clutch cable, but if you know the relationship of road speed to engine speed to gear speed, you can shift without using the clutch. You can use neutral to adjust engine speed, just like when double clutching. Practice while the clutch still works.

Speed shifting I though was shifting quickly. This is NOT what you want to do without a working clutch. Easy, smooth moves with the shift lever. Let the synchros work if the speeds are slightly off.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: ensys ()
Date: April 16, 2018 10:15PM

I agree, Mr.DuVal. Clutchless shifting can be a valuable technique in a pinch, tho it does require a certain... empathy with the gearbox. Like double-clutching, the would-be practicitioner has to develop an ear/feel for revs and gears and the patience to use it.

I once had to do three clutchless days of classes before the opportunity to effect repair could be made. The key phrase here is "strong battery" (especially if one has much reverse work) and a tune that will allow initiating operation from rest.

Theoretically, a fellow could rest his left leg among the top 3 or 4 gears on occasion, tho I don't recommend it.

Keep 'em flying...

S.J.Szabo

From America's
Automobile Heartland

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: April 17, 2018 07:42AM

OK, I have sent out a few inquiries for a NOS cable as they seem to be best. There are marine shops around here on the Gulf coast maybe that's the ticket. Snagged a set of pulleys and was advised on how to fabricate a copper shift rod bushing.

As for clutchless shifting and starting in gear... I learned those techniques when I was driving the Type 356 (broken clutch cables, clutch plate stuck to flywheel), but I appreciate the reminders. Luckily second gear was all we needed to get home this time.

63turbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While you are under the car, be sure to inspect the condition of the shift
> coupler and pin. ...snipped... Better yet is to find one of those billet aluminum 2 piece couplers...

Hey Kevin - look what I have. thumbs up



Thanks for all the recommendations.

Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: MtnVairMike ()
Date: April 17, 2018 08:00AM

...and hope you don't have a later car with safety neutral clutch switch.
Doesn't work on my 78 truck.

Now that I think about it did Corvair ever have a neutral safety clutch switch on the last few years?

Thanks

Mike

1966 Monza Convertible, 140HP-4 speed, Ermine White

Others in the menagerie...
72 Corvette Stingray, 58K miles, owned since 86
72 MGB, 112K miles, bought from original owner in 09
78 Chevy pickup, 124K miles, bought new in 78
93 Corvette, LT1/6spd, 210K miles, daily driver since 96

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: April 17, 2018 08:18AM

Nope.

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: April 17, 2018 08:40AM

I was thinking that LM aftermarket clutch cables were maybe a little weak but EM were okay.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: April 17, 2018 08:50AM

The clutch cables do seem to get a bad press, but I often find the components are dried out and binding.

Same with hydraulics, poor maintenance and you are going to have problems.

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: April 17, 2018 10:10AM

Change both shift tube bushings to brass. Buy the solid clutch pulley. Buy a new solid E-brake pulley. Both pulleys come with new bushings and spacer to align them. Check the threaded pin that goes from the bell-crank to the clutch rod. They get worn and cause a sloppy feel. Easy fix.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: April 17, 2018 02:39PM

Bob, we early owners only have one shifter bushing per car! No outer/inner shift tube.... All out in the open air (inside the tunnel).

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: Noel Felty ()
Date: April 20, 2018 05:14PM

"Floating" is a technique used by truckers who have no syncros. This was adapdted years ago for a simple reason. When you have a deep reduction 13spd or a super10 that you are splitting each gear before the next (low and hi) or just a plain 10spd, you don't want to wear out your leg and knee. The clutch in a big truck does nothing between gears. It is basically a start stop mechanism. It keeps spinning even at a stop unless you push the clutch completely to the floor and engage the clutch brake. "Double clutching" is a technique applied as a leaning tool for new drivers. This technique is used to assist in timing the shifts. You simply push the clutch pedal in halfway twice between shifts. The time you take between shifts to push the pedal twice allows the transmission and engine to sync a little between shifts. Here is a little video explaining and demonstrating this in a Corvair! Learn this simple technique and get home everytime with a broken clutch cable. [www.youtube.com]



Noel Felty
Brevard, NC
1966 Corsa 140 Before

1966 Corsa After

1972 Ford f100

Corsa SC
NC Mountain Corvairs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2018 06:02PM by MattNall.

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: Allan Lacki ()
Date: April 21, 2018 06:09AM

Hi Noel, Thanks for providing the video!

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Re: Hard shifting - UGH, the broken clutch cable thing
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 21, 2018 07:40AM

Now in our FAQ's





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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