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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 25, 2018 03:37PM

I know Dan, I read all that stuff just like you did... the fact remains, if it was such a great workable, practical cooling solution, why didn't they incorporate that in to the thousands of others that they sold until 1998. I watched one of those stand on it at 100 miles an hour, It blew everyones doors
off like they were standing still. Easy to see that the 959 driver had just floored it because of the black cloud of smoke out the exhaust. Sometimes innovations can be made to work by making compromises in other areas, and in the 959's case, that black cloud out the exhaust gives you a clue as to what some of those compromises were...

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 25, 2018 05:18PM

The 959 and the 996 models had water cooled heads.
The 993 series were the last to be air cooled.
The 996 models were split as to engine design......
the turbo models utilized the old air cooled style crankcase with water cooled heads (just like the 959)
The 996 (and subsequent generations) naturally aspirated engines had crankcase and heads with water jacketing. I would think that with a large enough oil cooler that a Corvair engine with just water cooled heads would be fine and would not need any water to cool the bottom end.

Lee J

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: February 25, 2018 07:14PM

The vast majority of the heat in any OHV engine leaves through the heads. (Notice how our engines use shrouding around the cylinders to block air flow and force it over the heads?) Water cooled heads on air cooled cylinders work fine because of this. Look at most water cooled engines. A lot of them only cool the very top of the cylinder. Small blocks for racing often would fill the bottom of the water jackets with epoxy to make the block stronger with no cooling problems. I would say the main reason they don't do it in production is if you are going to water cool the heads it is much cheaper to cool the cylinders also instead of having 2 cooling systems. Aluminum heads on iron cylinders is backwards if there is a problem with the different expansion rates since aluminum already expands more than iron and the aluminum heads get much hotter than the cylinders.
Lots of small block Chevys over the years have come factory with iron blocks and aluminum heads with no head gasket issues that I've ever heard of.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 26, 2018 04:36AM

The bottom end does not need to be water cooled. BUT I do know from other engines such as small block Chevrolet and Ford V8's guys would fill the bottom 1/3rd of the water jackets with hard block/"grout" to strengthen the block. This causes the oil temperatures to go extremely high when used on the street. But, a good engine oil cooler would rectify that.


Almost every production car now uses aluminum heads either with an iron block or an aluminum block.

Lee J

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 26, 2018 07:22AM

More stuff for the guys that are finding topic interesting. My BMW is totally water cooled, but would think air cooling is also part of the system.



[www.motorcycledaily.com]


[www.thoughtco.com]



[motorbikewriter.com]

[www.bing.com]

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: 19sixty5 ()
Date: February 27, 2018 12:47PM

Shaker455 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know the past few years Harley came out with a
> big twin head that has limited cooling to the
> exhaust side of the head


Yes, the 2014 HD touring bikes have what HD calls "Twin Cooling", air and water cooled. With consistent temps, they were able to bump the compression ration slightly and add more aggressive cams than the air cooled version.

65 Crown Hardtop

Huntsville, AL

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: glivorsi ()
Date: March 02, 2018 12:12PM

In the 80s and early 90s Suzuki had a very successful line of 4-cylinder engines that were mostly oil-cooled. They had fins on the cylinder bank and an oversized oil cooler that was almost the size of a typical radiator. Oil flow was increased and sprayed onto critical areas to remove heat.

Greg in Wildwood, MO (part of the St. Louis urban sprawl)

1965 Monza Vert 110PG, Crocus Yellow with black interior and top

2014 Honda Accord V6 (DD)
2017 Honda Pilot (wifemobile)
2012 Chevy Sonic 1.8L (kid's car)
1997 Honda CBR1100XX
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 (no longer own)

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: March 02, 2018 01:30PM

I recently read (during my research) more about how oil sprayed in areas of an engine was used to help cool it down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2018 01:38PM by OttawaCorvairGuy.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: March 02, 2018 03:03PM

OttawaCorvairGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently read (during my research) more about
> how oil sprayed in areas of an engine was used to
> help cool it down.


Yes, I remember an ad for Mercedes from the '80s that had a cut-away engine showing how they cooled the bottoms of their pistons with individual jets of oil sprayed up inside of each cylinder.
It seems that I have seen some diesels that used the same idea.

.
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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: March 02, 2018 03:25PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OttawaCorvairGuy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I recently read (during my research) more about
> > how oil sprayed in areas of an engine was used
> to
> > help cool it down.
>
>
> Yes, I remember an ad for Mercedes from the '80s
> that had a cut-away engine showing how they cooled
> the bottoms of their pistons with individual jets
> of oil sprayed up inside of each cylinder.
> It seems that I have seen some diesels that used
> the same idea.


I worked on diesels in the US Army. A diesel uses the oil cooling more than gas engines. The diesel has too, due to the high combustion and much high temps needed to ignite the fuel.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: March 02, 2018 05:14PM

I had a watercooled FZR1000 Yamaha that had metal tubes that sprayed oil on the underside of the piston crowns to cool them.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: March 02, 2018 06:08PM

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a watercooled FZR1000 Yamaha that had metal
> tubes that sprayed oil on the underside of the
> piston crowns to cool them.


Roger Gault incorporated piston oilers on his 3.6 liter Corvair engine that he sold to Phil Dally.

Lee J

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: jmaechtlen ()
Date: March 02, 2018 11:16PM

Lots of water cooled motors with Iron blocks and aluminum heads.
Reason to use liquid cooling? Ability to pull much more heat from the head - for when you want to make more than 80 HP for longish periods of time.
- how much HP does it take to pull a Vair up a mountain at 80+ mph - helluva lot more than 80, I bet.
Keep the alloy cool enough so that valve seats stay in place...

could cut down the stock fan and let it just cool the barrels, while you use a remote cooler for the water. Maybe an electric fan would be good enough to just cool the cylinders?

Cooling would no longer be the limiter for Corvair HP - push about 20 PSI and worry about the bottom end instead!

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: March 03, 2018 07:44AM

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joelsplace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I had a watercooled FZR1000 Yamaha that had
> metal
> > tubes that sprayed oil on the underside of the
> > piston crowns to cool them.
>
>
> Roger Gault incorporated piston oilers on his 3.6
> liter Corvair engine that he sold to Phil Dally.


Maybe Phil will chime in.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: March 03, 2018 08:11AM

I think Roger Gault would be a better person to chime in! gg





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