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Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: February 25, 2018 07:39AM

Keeping EVERYTHING as it is - other than modified heads and the needed cooling system for them.
The discussion is - Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine to be used in a CORVAIR and OTHER vehicles?



Earlier this morning I watched a nice video about the Tucker display at a museum in PA.

They showed the original (first engine that Tucker made), the helicopter engine, and the modified helicopter engine with water cooled heads.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2018 07:41AM by OttawaCorvairGuy.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: February 25, 2018 08:01AM

I think the possibilities to work these engines are endless.
I been bench racing these ideas for years.
Individual heads, overhead cams, Harley parts, water cooling....it all can be done!

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: February 25, 2018 08:09AM

Shaker455 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the possibilities to work these engines
> are endless.
> I been bench racing these ideas for years.
> Individual heads, overhead cams, Harley parts,
> water cooling....it all can be done!


I would really like to have individual heads!!

The water cooled heads might be the ticket - for use in heavier vehicles.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 25, 2018 08:24AM

read this

[corvaircenter.com]





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 25, 2018 08:27AM

Water cooling the heads only has been tried numerous times both on air cooled
automotive engines and motorcycles in the past, and it never worked out very well, because of the considerable thermal distortions that take place between the much cooler, consistent running head and the hotter wider temperature variations in the cylinder. Water cooling the head and upper part of the cylinder and the head has also been tried and also didn't work very well either, for the same reasons. My personal observations of this idea came from
talking with the guys that tried it in the motocross world in the late 70's.
They said that from their experience, one either needs to water cool all of it
or none of it!
A basic problem is that the coolant has to be kept lower than its boiling point and will end up over cooling everything that is jacketed relative to the stuff that has no jacket, leading to thermal distortions between the jacketed and unjacketed areas.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 25, 2018 08:33AM

Bob Helt's CC article on Taylor Water cooled engine





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: February 25, 2018 08:50AM

I know the past few years Harley came out with a big twin head that has limited cooling to the exhaust side of the head

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: February 25, 2018 08:56AM

That Taylor engine is nice. Funny that I've never heard of it before. Of course 1981 predates me joining Corsa.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto, Procharger i-1

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Oklahoma City, OK

Click for Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Forecast

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 25, 2018 09:00AM

Our Tom Keo has one...





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: wv-geo ()
Date: February 25, 2018 09:02AM

Porsche installed an engine with water-cooled heads in the 911 before going completely water cooled.
Never heard of any problems with that setup.

Some have a concern about the difference in expansion between water-cooled heads and the cylinders.
Don't we already have that problem with aluminum heads and iron cylinders?

Dan Stark
Hurricane, WV

1961 Lakewood 500, 80HP, PG
1964 Corvair 500 Coupe, 140HP, 4spd (Christine)
1965 Mustang Coupe, 6cyl, 3spd

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 25, 2018 09:05AM

Porsche started water cooling the heads on its flat 6 race engine in the late 70's.
The 959 was the first road car use of it (that I can think of). All of the later 911 turbo's have water cooled heads on a case that is very similar to the old air cooled case.
Break out the tig welder and start welding boxes around the Corvair heads and add a pump(s) and a dedicated cooling system for it.

Lee J

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: February 25, 2018 09:10AM

Really interesting. It makes me wonder why this type of engine fabrication is not used today? Is there a limit to the HP these can achieve or some other issue? It all makes so much sense when reading it. Detroit went to cast iron but why? Again, it sounds like this design solves all the problems with a cast engine. More expensive to make? I would love it if this car/engine was shown in a video, static and running.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 25, 2018 09:19AM

BobV66Vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really interesting. It makes me wonder why this
> type of engine fabrication is not used today? Is
> there a limit to the HP these can achieve or some
> other issue? It all makes so much sense when
> reading it. Detroit went to cast iron but why?
> Again, it sounds like this design solves all the
> problems with a cast engine. More expensive to
> make? I would love it if this car/engine was shown
> in a video, static and running.

Ask Terry Glasscock or Mark Irons. Both of them push Corvair engines to extreme limits with their racers.

Lee J

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 25, 2018 10:39AM

wv-geo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Porsche installed an engine with water-cooled
> heads in the 911 before going completely water
> cooled.
> Never heard of any problems with that setup.
>
> Some have a concern about the difference in
> expansion between water-cooled heads and the
> cylinders.
> Don't we already have that problem with aluminum
> heads and iron cylinders?

Notice that Porsche DID NOT ever introduce a water cooled head only for
production cars. They were either all air cooled or all water cooled, and
it was because of the issues I cited earlier. Again- these ideas were tried numerous times on both air-cooled automotive and motorcycles many times in the
late 70's in racing applications. A similar issue comes up with water cooled aluminum heads and water cooled iron blocks, although in that case the usual
failure is blown head gaskets, which is why nobody does that anymore.
Aluminum air-cooled heads on iron air cooled cylinders is much less of a problem because the two materials can find a better equilibrium and the main
concern is having enough piston to cylinder clearance. It is better to have
the cylinder and head be of the same material, but it has been the more expensive approach.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Date: February 25, 2018 01:08PM

63turbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"Notice that Porsche DID NOT ever introduce a water
> cooled head only for production cars. They were either all air cooled
> or all water cooled, ...."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Das ist nicht wahr.(not true)


Click the photo to go to Porsche.com...

Porsche 959 - Group B SuperCar - required 200 built as a production run.
Water Cooled heads on Air Cooled engine with Bi-Turbo, AWD, etc...
An incredible Tour d'Force of technology of the time....


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2018 01:11PM by 1966-Corsa-GT-180.

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 25, 2018 01:38PM

[en.wikipedia.org]

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 25, 2018 02:03PM

[www.bing.com]

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: Max Roeder ()
Date: February 25, 2018 02:31PM

Food for thought.


[www.liquidcooledairpower.com]

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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 25, 2018 02:52PM

Key words: Production cars... 200 cars for homogulation purposes for racing hardly counts. Porsches last all air-cooled cars ended years later than the 959.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Your Thoughts About Water Cooled Heads for a Corvair Engine
Date: February 25, 2018 03:12PM

"The road version of the 959 debuted at the 1985 Frankfurt Motor Show as a 1986 model, but numerous issues delayed production by more than a year. The car was manufactured in two levels of trim, "Sport" and "Komfort", corresponding to the race version and the road version. First customer deliveries of the 959 street variant began in 1987, and the car debuted at a cost of US$225,000 per unit, still less than half what it cost Porsche to build each one. Production ended in 1988 with 292 959s from the assembly line. In total, 337 cars were built, including 37 prototypes and pre-production models."
From Karl Ludvigsen.
The Gruppe B circuit racing and Rallying was a distant memory as Porsche continued to produce the 959 Road cars. They were no doubt a true production Porsche. There is no substitute....


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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