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High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: January 31, 2018 09:29AM

Need to replace the blower motors in 2 of my rides. Sourced from 2 different places and did some bench testing. Both motors were run no load for 2 minutes prior to testing. Tach was a hand held contact type, so amps. went up, but no blower wheel was installed.
Enjoy!

Auto Zone
VDO
PM-102
No load amps. 2.3
Taching amps. 4.2
R.P.M. 3750

Advance Auto
Tough One (knock off 4 Seasons?)
35587
No load amps. 1.85
Taching amps. 4.2
R.P.M. 4250


'64 Monza Coupe 140 4 speed
'61 700 Lakewood 95 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 31, 2018 09:44AM

Great info!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: flamingchariots ()
Date: January 31, 2018 12:36PM

Were the shafts identical in length and girth? Spin the right direction?

Sounds like the Advance one would be better. Couldn't come up with it online.

Rockauto 35587: [www.rockauto.com] $14.54 + shipping


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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: geezer43 ()
Date: January 31, 2018 01:05PM

How about the one from Clarks? I have one but never installed as old heater motor unfroze itself and now works.

Jim Johnson, Chandler, Arizona
63 Monza convertible - resale red

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: January 31, 2018 01:15PM

More confusion to the mix. I pulled what I thought was the original motor out of my 69.

No load amps. 1.85
Taching amps. 4.1
Taching R.P.M. 4300

So are the 2 I bought just like stock?
Was the one in my 69 replaced with a high volume at some point?
Is my tach fibbing to me?

Pick one.


'64 Monza Coupe 140 4 speed
'61 700 Lakewood 95 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Melb-Mike ()
Date: January 31, 2018 01:20PM

I was wondering why the fan wheel wasn't installed. A free running electric motor may run fast with no load but bog down with a load....but not absolutely sure. I bought one of Clark's upgrade fan and noticed a good bit more flow but the comparison was with an old motor So not much of a scientific test. The real test woukd be with the fan wheel installed and reading CFM output. I woukd think the 4.2 amp reading may double with the fan wheel installed.

Not to criticize but why buy from Advance Auto or Autozone when Clark's has the parts and supports our car hobby ?

64 Greenbrier
64 Spyder (needs restoration)
65 Corsa 140, restored
66 Corsa turbo, restoring now
66 Corsa 140 "RR" code coupe fully restored
67 Pontiac GTO restored
69 Corvette 427 convertible restored
2004 Caterham R400 (Lotus super7)my race car
2015 Porsche Panamera S
2015 Corvette Z06
1965 AC Cobra (Factory Five)

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 31, 2018 01:53PM

I did this a couple of years ago when I bought the HD motor using a non contact digital tach. The 2570 was the new HD motor the 2270 was the stock motor with fan. The 7370 was without the blade, but there must have been too many fumes in the garage. That should read 3770. The current went down a bunch after it was installed in the car, which is typical for this type of fan to use less power when it is loaded properly. Some where I have the current number written down. The largest difference, by far, was the start current for the HD fan. If you start them on low and work your way up it wasn't that much difference.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: January 31, 2018 03:59PM

Melb-Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was wondering why the fan wheel wasn't
> installed?

At the time of the initial test of new motors I didn't have a blower wheel.


> Not to criticize but why buy from Advance Auto or
> Autozone when Clark's has the parts and supports
> our car hobby ?

I've spent literally thousands with Clark's over the years. For these locally available items I got both motors for the price of one with zero shipping.

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Melb-Mike ()
Date: January 31, 2018 04:56PM

It would be interesting to see how the HD motor Clark's sells compares to the standard GM motor. I didn't put a tach on mine but it sure seemed to move more air thru the defroster. Being here in Florida, the heater isn't used as often as a defroster.

An interesting aspect of your test shows less amperage than I would have expected. I was thinking these motors running at about 10 Amps (120 watts).

64 Greenbrier
64 Spyder (needs restoration)
65 Corsa 140, restored
66 Corsa turbo, restoring now
66 Corsa 140 "RR" code coupe fully restored
67 Pontiac GTO restored
69 Corvette 427 convertible restored
2004 Caterham R400 (Lotus super7)my race car
2015 Porsche Panamera S
2015 Corvette Z06
1965 AC Cobra (Factory Five)

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 31, 2018 05:05PM

This is why I always investigate BEFORE buying parts...

My '67 seemed to work fine.... then one day ...almost nothing..

Pulled it out and cleaned the fuzz out.... re-installed and felt the vents...

When the discussion came up... I went and bought the recommended PN / without plastic fan.... used original fan.... installed .... 25% FEEL more airflow...

No relay has ever been installed..

For $19 I'm happy..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: January 31, 2018 05:51PM

I can't prove this because I don't have one of the HD motors that folks installed 30 years ago. Having worked in the electronics industry I can say for a fact that magnet technology has really come a long way. Motors are way more efficient. I would think the motors we can by today will put out way more power with similar amounts of current when compared to our factory stock motors.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: January 31, 2018 07:18PM

A bit over a year ago, my heater motor started squealing.
The bearings were just making an awful racket every time I turned the heater on.
Got the PM102 motor and pulled out the old one.
When I removed it, I discovered that the bearings were not the issue.
The center hub of the fan itself had come loose and the hub was spinning within the squirrel-cage.
I had not access to a new fan, and needed the heater immediately, not later.
A small dab of JB Weld soon had things all solid again.grinning smiley
Since I had the new motor there, I went ahead and installed it.
WOOOSH ! ! !
Yes, there was more air flow than I had seen in years !
So much so that the first several times I used the heater after that, I had to be careful when turning it on because of all the debris that was coming out of the defroster vents ! ! !

As Matt said, no relays or fancy wiring needed.
Straight plug & play!

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: February 01, 2018 02:20PM

For you electrically educated folks, on the better magnet possibilities, the "tough one" motor spins with a thump thump thump like the poles of several magnets passing by each other. The VDO unit spins freely. Whatever that means.

'64 Monza Coupe 140 4 speed
'61 700 Lakewood 95 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: aircooled6 ()
Date: February 01, 2018 04:53PM

The way to tell if the blower motor is stock or Hi-Volume is easy!
The "Stock" motor is a bit longer from the base plate to the end of the motor where the Ball is. There are no external magnets and no hole in the motor housing.

THe High-Volume (Made for Air Conditioned GM non-Corvairs) is slightly shorter, has the external magnets around the housing up by the base plate and almost always has a large hole (I forget what size - 7/8" or so) where a rubber hose from the A/C housing in those other cars can provide cooling air to the motor. We use a plug and some electrical tape to seal that hole off on Corvair heaters.

The pic above in Flaming Chariots post is the Hi Volume type. If you cant remember the part number, even the brain dead kid behind the counter at Auto-Bone can find one by inputting 1970 Chevy Impala, 350 engine, with A/C.

Then, there are the Corvair vs non Corvair A/C motors up front! They rotate the wrong way compared to almost every other GM application. (Of Course).

Everett Wilson
North Richland Hills TX
(Now, South of 820!!)
64 Greenbrier 110 with 95 heads/PG

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Melb-Mike ()
Date: February 01, 2018 05:42PM

Are all the GM fans from that era (60 - 69) the same regardless if it was on a Corvair or an Impala ? I have a HD motor for my Pontiac GTO. Tomorrow I'll compare it to the Corvair. It would figure GM had one or two fan motors for all their cars.

64 Greenbrier
64 Spyder (needs restoration)
65 Corsa 140, restored
66 Corsa turbo, restoring now
66 Corsa 140 "RR" code coupe fully restored
67 Pontiac GTO restored
69 Corvette 427 convertible restored
2004 Caterham R400 (Lotus super7)my race car
2015 Porsche Panamera S
2015 Corvette Z06
1965 AC Cobra (Factory Five)

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: February 01, 2018 07:16PM

Put a bead blasted blower wheel on the he Advance Auto motor and amperage went to 9.7 outside the housing. Moves a ton of air! You folks that decided to install a relay, what did you fuse it at?

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: February 01, 2018 08:02PM

To American Mel and all others who have ripped the center from the fan cage: Remember the torque that any electric motor generates. With that in mind I have always suggested that IF the blower motor is on high when engine is shut off the electric motor will instantly jerk itself to full rpm instantly when key is turned back on. The center of the metal fan cages just can't take that torque forever. I also told owners (and have practiced it myself since the early 60s) to first turn off the blower motor when key is turned off. Make it an automatic movement. THEN after key is back on/engine running start blower motor by going to low speed and let the motor start moving, then in a half a minute move to medium speed and again let the motor turn itself up. Finally go to high. Just like a three speed car. Sounds foolish when I type it like this but it will save the fan cage.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 01, 2018 08:29PM

Hmmm, Steve that is interesting.
And it makes sense.
The main reason that I have always left it on high is because that is where I usually use it.
All or nothing.grinning smiley
For longevity of the fan itself, what you say makes sense.
BUT, for the motor itself, . . . .
There is more to the story.
If you ask any company that makes box fans, or household cooling fans why they always start at Hi - Med - Low, Rather than Low - Med - Hi, the answer is the resistance in starting a three speed motor on the low setting is hard on it.
Go figure!
Doomed if you do, Doomed if you don't.eye rolling smiley

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 02, 2018 05:34AM

""For you electrically educated folks, on the better magnet possibilities, the "tough one" motor spins with a thump thump thump like the poles of several magnets passing by each other. The VDO unit spins freely. Whatever that means.""

If you feel thumping or pulsing when turning without any power, its almost certainly a permanent magnet motor.


""Put a bead blasted blower wheel on the he Advance Auto motor and amperage went to 9.7 outside the housing. Moves a ton of air! You folks that decided to install a relay, what did you fuse it at?""

"If you install it in a car with the system complete, expect the current to be less than that."


Your comparing AC motor driven fans with DC motor driven fans. DC motors have much more starting torque .

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: High Volume Heater Blower #'s
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: February 02, 2018 06:05AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The "tough one" motor
> spinslike the poles of
> several magnets passing by each other. Whatever that means.""
>
> If you feel thumping or pulsing when turning
> without any power, its almost certainly a
> permanent magnet motor.
>
Exactly what I thought but is a permanent magnet motor a superior piece or just a different design and equal in performance?
>
> Amperage went to 9.7
> outside the housing. Moves a ton of air! You folks
> that decided to install a relay, what did you fuse
> it at?""
>
> "If you install it in a car with the system
> complete, expect the current to be less than
> that."

So would you suggest a 10 amp. fuse would adequately protect this motor with a 12 ga. wire?

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