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Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:19PM

I've searched other threads and still can't figure this out.

I have a 63 sedan. I removed the 80HP PG engine and put in a 64 110HP MT engine. In the process I put in new brake lines fuel lines and Main Wiring Harness. The engine has an alternator not a generator. So I have a new 1964 Main wiring harness hooked to my old rear 63 harness and I'm looking at the wiring diagrams for a 1965 because it has an alternator.

I am getting no power to the rear wiring harness at all...I must have wired it wrong because most/all the electrical wires are new...it's not a corrosion issue. The 4 prong voltage regulator has 4 wires. The top (F) is blue, I spliced it to the thin blue wire in the rear harness and connected the thin blue wire near the rear of the engine to F on the alternator. The next wire (Thicker gauge brown) connects to another thick brown one on the rear harness and then comes out near the rear and goes to the R terminal on the alternator. The third prong on the voltage regulator is red. It connects to the thin wire coming from the positive battery cable. The thick red wire from the alternator also connects to that same wire. The last prong on Voltage regulator is thin brown and it connects to the thin brown one on the rear harness. The new braided ground strap connects to alternator and engine chassis. I have 4 new braided copper ground straps on the 4 corners of the engine to the chassis.

The only power I get with my multimeter is to terminal 3 on the voltage regulator....no power comes out of the voltage regulator...what did I set up wrong? Any help would be great, Thanks!

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:22PM

I'll get you a link to our "FAQ" Frequently Asked Questions answer on this topic.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:26PM

This is from our FAQ "sticky" topic that's always at the top of the Corvair Center list.

FAQ / RULES & FAQs / Electrical / Converting EM to LM alternator

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:28PM

Terminal 3 should be hot at all times.
Terminal 4 should be hot with the key ON.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:31PM

That's just what I need - thank you! Just to be clear...I need to have my old rectangular Voltage regulator from when I had a generator as well as my new square voltage regulator for the alternator? It looks like I will be using both voltage regulators according to this diagram...that must be my mistake

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:33PM

3 hot at all times and 4 hot with key on....Thanks!!!

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:35PM

Nope only the new square one... make sure the case is grounded!





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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:37PM

The old voltage regulator only serves as a convenient "tie-point" for the four wires. The regulator itself doesn't do anything.

You could substitute a junction block or use the battery post or alternator post for the tie point. Most people leave the old regulator because the body harness and battery harness are already connected to it.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:41PM

Oh yes...I grounded the case. Black wire from rear harness is grounded to screw that holds regulator to the firewall. But I'm confused by the diagram because it is showing 2 regulators

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 08:46PM

Thanks Cnicol...I will take another crack at it and probably go to the auto parts store and just get a junction block if I can't figure anything else out. I've been working on this car for 3 years and am very excited to have it up and running. It will be like driving a brand new 63 Monza out of the showroom. I just got the engine in today.

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 17, 2018 09:26PM

ctccorvair wrote: "Black wire from rear harness is grounded to screw that holds regulator to the firewall."

Craig replies: Your statement above worries me... I don't think there are any black ground wires in the harness. All wires in the harness are either positive voltage (lamps, start, ignition) or gauge sensor wires.

In an early model "black" is often used for battery-voltage "main" wiring. Is the wire you're referring-to medium weight, like 12 gauge or 10 gauge?

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: Two2brew ()
Date: January 17, 2018 09:36PM

Here is a good tutorial.

[www.corvair1.com]

Lyle Whitsett
San Diego, CA
64 Monza convertible

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 09:41PM

Yes...it's medium weight...12Gauge or 10 gauge...it has a flat clip that seems to be the appropriate length to rear the voltage regulator. That must be my problem...I found the FAQ section and the page that you sent me a link to...but am still confused. That black wire must have connected to the Batt post on the old regulator. Does that wire get connected to the positive battery cable when converting from EM generator to LM alternator?

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 09:43PM

Raffee's tutorial is great but mine is external regulator

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 17, 2018 09:49PM

Quote: "That black wire must have connected to the Batt post on the old regulator. Does that wire get connected to the positive battery cable when converting from EM generator to LM alternator?"

YES! The black wire from the harness is the power-feed to the front of the car.

Four wires all connect together
-Black 12 ga. lead from body harness
-Black (or red) 12 ga from battery
-Red 12 ga from alternator output post
-Red (or brown) 18 ga from regulator #3

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: ctcorvair ()
Date: January 17, 2018 10:05PM

Makes total sense! Thank you so much cnicol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2018 10:14PM by ctcorvair.

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: January 18, 2018 08:48AM

I am in agreement with Al Lane. Get rid of the external regulator and only use an internal regulated alternator.
Simpler, easier to wire in, less wiring, more reliable, parts availability is better, better charging capability, less places to have issues, etc. etc.
My confusion is related to why people would do a conversion with out also simplifying the entire process.
Most of us that have gotten rid of the generator have created a "sub" harness for this conversion.

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 18, 2018 09:40AM

Our club helped a member with a LM engine in a FC and a less than organized wiring harness.

We converting the 10DN external regulated alternator to a 10SI internally regulated alternator which simplified the wiring.

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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 18, 2018 10:13AM

The below photo shows the engine wiring I had on my Greenbrier. I am now in the midst of properly modifying a new harness to use the internally regulated alternator. Generator used wires are being removed to eliminate any future mistakes. The wiring diagram below shows what I am doing. The Voltage regulator is being replace by 2 junction blocks. Red for the BATT connection and Black for the Blue (alternator) and Brown Engine Harness connection. Be aware some 2 wire plugs are red and white. I have removed these wire and insert proper length blue and white wire. No splices in my system at all. The diode will be incorporated into the wire going to the black junction block. It will be soldered into the wire, supported by a plastic support and heat shrinked to protect it. All wires going to the alternator will be wrapped in black plastic tubing and tie wrapped. A clip will be taped close to the alternator end and inserted into the alternator hole provided for this purpose. It should look good and perform as expected.

I am also doing a kit for BILLG for his 64 Monza Vert. Bill is in Florida and the Vert is in Ohio. I can still make up the wires to the alternator and VR location and he will be able to install the mod and crank it up. If he follows the wiring schematic and don't change wires from I put them, it should all run on first engine operation. Oh yes, he is using his original harness with a generator that is being removed.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Wiring Confusion
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 18, 2018 05:31PM

Al - Why the diodes? I've never used them, should not be needed.

You've introduced about a 1.5VDC drop to the regulator field circuit during startup.

I've heard folks say they can't shut off the car without the diodes, but frankly I attribute that to mis wiring since I've never had it happen. There is not enough feed back current on shut down to power the coil.

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