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FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:16AM

What are the fan options for a reverse engine setup?

What have you done or seen done?

Tony
(Ottawa Area - Canada)

(1) Marie's 1962 Convertible and our 1966 Ultravan #248 (aka Itchy Feet - Long Restoration)
(2) Our 1963 Rampside (Sold 2014) and 1967 Ultravan #256 at Upper Canada Valley car show in 2009.
(UV256 aak Itchy Feet II - corvair power plant came out 2012 - plans with donor for a GM 3.8L FWD conversion, as a gas pusher, in the back of UV256)
(3 & 4) Are some of our 11 Corvair parts cars - to help keep our stuff on the road - hopefully as long as we live. ;-)
(5) Is one of our Wayne 100 boats (Corvair powered)
(6) Nov 14, 2012 Ultravans #362 and #512 arrived. We are getting closer to our goal of having an Ultravan museum.
We now own; UV248, UV256, UV362, UV512, and UV520 will hopefully be here July 2013.
(7) I saved Ultravan #231 from the scarp yard this year. It arrived May 9, 2013 and I plan to flip this one with a mid-engine Subaru power plant.



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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:19AM

a '60 or the Mag fan ....

61-3 HD is directional

63Turbo's new fan won't work.... it's directional





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 09:21AM by MattNall.

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:28AM

Does the 60 fan mate to a LM bearing and top cover?

More about the Mag fan please? What year and model found and why it is so different?

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:31AM

Tony... 60-64 is small bearing.... Holes will need enlarged...

How do you not know about the mag fan? Most common in use today..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:40AM

I would like to keep the 60 Power-plant complete - should someone want to it.

I'm wondering if any of my other parts cars have the fan I would need.

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: January 14, 2018 10:03AM

I think 64-69 all used the mag fan. Blades are straight so will move air either direction

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// New Build! 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged!

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: January 14, 2018 10:23AM

Thank you Matt and Ryan.

Is the Porsche style fan worth all the effort? Does it move more air?

Other than all the work to install one are there any other cons and what are the pros?

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: January 14, 2018 10:40AM

No the Porsche style fan is not worth the effort. The big problem with those
fans is that they have a huge stall at low rpms, meaning that you wont be getting nearly as much airflow as you should be getting at those lower rpms, consequently the engine ends up running hot. If you go ahead and gear those
taller to take care of the low rpm cooling, then your mid and high rpm horsepower usage starts to skyrocket. It is a problem INHERENT to those styles of fans, and you simply have to pick your poisen. Its those kind of issues that make the Porsche style fans bad choices for street cars, cost issues aside.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: January 14, 2018 10:38PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a '60 or the Mag fan ....
>
> 61-3 HD is directional
>
> 63Turbo's new fan won't work.... it's
> directional



Why not?
If it is cut by a computer program isn't there someway that Kevin could "reverse " all of the data to create a reverse fan for rev-engine guys too?

.
-----------------------------------------------
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 15, 2018 05:07AM

Keep in mind that even the 1960-61 fan is directional. The blades are curved and not straight. That would be like turning your heater fan backwards or even the generator/alternator fan backwards. They move air but at a very reduced rate.

The only easy fan that will work is the magnesium fan. The 64 Mg fan will fit on the early bearings, they went to the 65-9 bearing due to longevity.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: January 15, 2018 06:02AM

I cannot recall if any of my so called parts cars have a good fan.
I'll have to go see when the snow and cold weather is gone. Grin

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: January 15, 2018 06:43AM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MattNall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > a '60 or the Mag fan ....
> >
> > 61-3 HD is directional
> >
> > 63Turbo's new fan won't work.... it's
> > directional
>
>
> Why not?
> If it is cut by a computer program isn't there
> someway that Kevin could "reverse " all of the
> data to create a reverse fan for rev-engine guys
> too?

I could certainly design one that goes in the other direction,
but no, it is not as simple as a command that reverses the data.
I would have to make a new CAD model.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: dryenko ()
Date: January 15, 2018 07:18AM

Hi Kevin,
My experience and engineering background say that , while at low speed of the plastic fan does not produce enough cooling for street use, the cavitation of the blades at high rpm , due to low incidence angle of the blade is what causes a cessation of airflow sat high blade tip speed speed rpms.
I proved this to myself in the early development stages of the vertical fan, which I pioneered on my Yenko D/P rrace back in the late 1970's using the Minicooper plastic fan blade.
I attempted to increase the airflow by increasing the drive ratio beyond 1:1.1 to 1:1.4
The fan stopped pumping at around 6000 rpm and head temps skyrocketed.
So back to 1:1.1 ratio and everything returned to normal.

Bob C aka Dryenko
Dobson, NC 27017

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: dryenko ()
Date: January 15, 2018 07:27AM

PS : A actual 11 blade Porsche 911 vertical fan will work fine on a street or even a performance Corvair engine.
It has been done many times.
For standard rotation Corvair engines the fan with alternator/ housing can be mounted at the bell housing end and a drive shaft used.

Bob C aka Dryenko
Dobson, NC 27017

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Re: FAN Options for a Reverse Engine
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: January 15, 2018 05:48PM

I didn't say they wont work on a street Corvair... I stated what the trades were in using those types of fans. Here's an example of what I'm talking about using real numbers that I found for a real Porsche fan, used on real Porsche engine for racing:

Experimental carbon fiber fan for a 911: tester states the fan only
uses 1 hp at 4000 rpm but 30 at 8000 rpm -the tester goes on to state they
are ok with the 30 hp and it is mainly from 'airflow and not pressure'
- using those usage numbers, I applied the fan laws to the above and found
that around 3hp is being consumed at 4K if 30 is used at
8k, meaning that the fan is operating stalled at 4k... not a big deal if
the engine has the massive oil coolers those things have and the exceptional
finning of the heads and cylinders- they are ok with that. Since most most
street Corvairs don't have those huge oil coolers and none have the fancy
efficient fins, they are going to have some obstacles to overcome.
Much easier, simpler and far cheaper to gear the mag fan for the application
if horsepower usage is a concern, or use belt slippage or power disks.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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