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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 13, 2018 03:19PM

Wagon Master Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> vairmech Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Personally I don't like
> > the material if it is the grey to off white
> > material.
>
>
> Unless it's lighting or camera angle you're first
> 2 picture look like different shoe material. The
> linings you showed me at your shop look like the
> second one. Are these the ones you like?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Yes, the color is off and I didn't notice until it was posted.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 13, 2018 03:23PM

croderique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this the same procedure for the LM or are the
> brakes that much different? I thought only
> difference is the brake drum / shoes were larger
> on the LM. Thanks, Chuck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, same procedure. The Late model brakes are 9 1/2X2 and 9 1/2X2 1/2.

Earlies are 9X1 3/4.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 13, 2018 03:25PM

RexJohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was told that the short front shoe was softer so
> that it would grab the drum and force the longer
> harder shoe tighter to the drum. That is why there
> is no anchor pin at the bottom so that the shoes
> can all rotate together wedging the longer shoe
> between the drum and the anchor pin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, it used to be that way and I did mention that in my initial post.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 13, 2018 03:31PM

Brizo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The most common cause I've been seeing for weak
> brakes (especially on on EM's for some reason) is
> roughly machined shoe linings, and drums with a
> rough surface because they were re-surfaced too
> fast -(often a FLAP store ). Both of these factors
> combined can result in a very low percentage of
> shoe to drum contact. Plus, I've had several
> cases of small shoe contact area due to waaaay
> oversize drums!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes, that is true to a point. I have also seen the regular shoe material be very coarsly ground almost like it was done on a CNC machine. I have taken those and sand papered the lining to remove some of the high spots. I agree on an un-knowing person using a brake lathe! The final cut needs to be very light and also finished with a pad or the ball grinder for a non-directional finish.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 13, 2018 03:34PM

v8vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ive always used the lead and trailing shoe, but
> when i hand my Porterfield racing shoes made they
> recommended a full lining on both shoes? More
> Contact. On my Carbo Tech Racing shoe they
> offered me the same choice but i went with the
> lead and trailing. Cant say ive tried the full
> shoes so just passing on what was offered.
> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The race shoes are a totally different ball game. You use them harder and longer than any standard car would ever think of. The race material needs heat in order to work and is pretty aggressive when warm. Opt for the full shoe of material because you will need all of the material for longevity.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: Ratt643 ()
Date: January 13, 2018 08:05PM

Another great write up, Ken! Yes, i agree that this needs to go in the "Sticky"!


1964 Monza Coupe

Maryville, TN
U.S. 129 The"Tail Of The Dragon"

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: January 14, 2018 06:21AM

I had never heard of breaking them in that way, but I do believe in taking if roa a test drive of 5 miles or so and checking the temperature (with my hand) of the wheel nuts. They will tell you if that wheel is over-tightened. I lost two tires on my 99 4Runner after a mechanic over-adjusted them. He had no idea what self adjusters were. If a wheel nut is hot, you need to back off or correct that wheel.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
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How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 14, 2018 08:44AM

richard1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had never heard of breaking them in that way,
> but I do believe in taking if roa a test drive of
> 5 miles or so and checking the temperature (with
> my hand) of the wheel nuts. They will tell you if
> that wheel is over-tightened. I lost two tires on
> my 99 4Runner after a mechanic over-adjusted them.
> He had no idea what self adjusters were. If a
> wheel nut is hot, you need to back off or correct
> that wheel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The reason for doing the break-in method I have outlined is you need to get the shoes hot! Not burned or glazed. What this does is finish curing the brake material and seat the shoes to the drum in a short drive. And I bet everyone thought the shoes were ready to go from the manufacturer! While just driving will eventually, (probably), cure the shoes what I mentioned was in the instructions from the 60's and 70's. They stopped adding the instructions maybe in the late 70's, early 80's?. Since a lot of you weren't around then and the information has not been passed along by others it is almost lost information that would be hard to find until now.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: January 14, 2018 07:39PM

Power Stop pads I bought last year came with similar instructions.

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 14, 2018 08:04PM

Some good advice here.

Yes SOME newer brake linings are deliberately oversized to compensate for worn drums. However - there is no substitute for getting shoes arced to the drum size. Sadly few places available to do it now. I found a place and what an improvement in pedal feel/pressure.

Kens break-in procedure is valid, but DO NOT overheat the linings, it will ruin them. Taking a conservative approach is fine, just takes longer to break-in. Not that long!

Drum surface when coarser will decrease pedal pressure, NOT increase it. It takes a short period for the drums to get smoother and knock the "fuzz" off the new lining. As stated before, a proper drum arc to fit the drum makes the most difference.

NOTE: newer brake drums use a differen metal alloy. Whe shoes went "ORGANIC" the drum metal allow was revised to work better with the NEW organic shoe material.

ORGANIC brake shoes just means there is no asbestos. Compounds vary a LOT. I found a shop that uses linings from S. America and Germany for a better pedal feel and performance (German linings are high metallic for fade resistance, but require a higher pedal pressure when cold).;



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 08:06PM by 66vairman.

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: nginbldr ()
Date: January 14, 2018 08:43PM

Just a short FYI in this brake discussion.. In 1964 I put a set of Velevetouch metallic brake shoes on my 63 Monza coupe..similar to GM's cerametallic shoes but supposedly less aggressive and easier on drums.. all the shoes have the same number of friction blocks and are the same length.. If I remember correctly, the instruction stated there were no primary or secondary shoes, but the break in procedure was in bold letters... "5 hard stops from 60 mph". they are still on my car and show practically no wear.. original drums smooth and bright..best brakes ever.. but of course haven't been available for years.. thumbs up
Ben

63 Monza coupe 4 sp (original owner)
66 Corsa coupe turbo
couple of old Vettes

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: mwr ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:49PM

nginbldr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a short FYI in this brake discussion.. In
> 1964 I put a set of Velevetouch metallic brake
> shoes on my 63 Monza coupe..

That's amazing that you've had the car all these years. I have one axle's worth of new Velvetouch shoes that I haven't installed yet, hopefully one more set will turn up sometime and they can all go on at once.

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 16, 2018 05:56AM

Good information that Ken has posted here. I'll just add my recent experiences using cheap "Brake Best" shoes from O'Reilly.

Shoes purchased for 64 had correct long/short linings but not beveled on the ends. The drums would not fit so I sanded the material down with a sanding block on the bench in the vice, a tedious chore. I also made the arc deeper on the top of the shoes where they contact the anchor pin which helped give a better contact pattern where the linings contact the drums, the tops of the linings were making more contact than the rest. Sort of labor intensive and strange that they would provide more lining material than required.

Shoes purchased for 66 front had correct long/short linings, beveled at the ends and the drums fit just fine. I didn't care for the radius of the arc on the top, in rough terms it was like a 1" radius contacting a 3/4" pin, but I left it alone.

I think they were both less than $20 for a 4 shoe set, NAPA pricing about $10 more. I don't buy anything from Auto Zone because they will not honor my Sales Tax exemption for resale unless I commit to buying $500 per month.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 21, 2018 04:41AM

I installed my set of the Wearever S189 shoes from Advance Auto Parts about a month ago. Major improvement in performance over the Clarks shoes. I no longer desire a disk brake conversion, the car stops great now. Also the S189's have a primary shoe already so no need to cut them as Ken described above.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: March 21, 2018 06:01AM

Did you change anything else our just swap the shoes?

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Re: How to make Early Brakes Work
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: March 21, 2018 08:11PM

I think Nick just changed the shoes out.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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