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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: February 10, 2018 06:38PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Always wondered if that actually helps...
>
> Maybe Kevin can rig one up on his test rig!!


That would be a GREAT idea! thumbs up
Personally, I have my doubts that it would make even a measurable difference at that height.
I am no aerodynamics engineer by any means, but I would think that it would need to be closer to 4 inches tall to really be effective.
I would also model the shape after the center cone in a Jet-turbine engine, not such a sharp point.
I can't imagine they just stuck those nice rounded cones in there and said "Awhh, tha's gud nuff!"

BUT, while he has not spoken about it, it appears that Kevin has also been working on the pulley too! If you look closely in the photo, there appear to be angled air flow holes in the sides of his pulley!
Maybe he will tell us more about it in his thread?
Since this thread is actually about disintegrating Mag fans.eye rolling smiley

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 10, 2018 08:22PM

Mel is right, that cone doesn't do much of anything because it is way too short, and the actual airflow path is tipped over a lot! Mel- you've got sharp
eyes, nobody else has asked anything about those holes in the pulley. I talked about doing something like that on Fastvair a few years ago, and a bunch of people that should have known better pretty much laughed it off, saying it wouldn't work/wouldn't help much. Fluid Dynamics was one of my best subjects in
College.... somebody was wrong here, and I was SURE it wasn't me!!
anyways, I went ahead and figured out how to calculate how much velocity pressure was lost by the pulley, and it was suprising to me how big the losses
really were, compared to a pulley that was opened as much as could be done.
Here's the estimated gain in pressure vs engine rpm. At 4k: 2.13"
5k: 3.33"
6k: 4.8"

The reason this works is that the o.d. of the pulley is roughly 30% of the
total area of the opening, and more normal opening vs pulley area might only be
9 to 10 % when sized for a belt driven fan. The losses for something like that are very minimal, but when it gets to 30% of the opening, the loss is TEN TIMES
bigger, and isn't insignificant anymore.
Yes, the openings in the pulley really did increase the flow, and, at least with my fan seemed to increase the efficiency, the bugger is that it needs to have a bell on to work. The bell helps the pulley, the pulley helps the bell.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 31, 2018 04:35AM

Back to cracks on the magnesium fans. I just bead blasted a fan and found a crack at the blade root outer edge. I could see the corrosion issues on the bottom, but wanted to see what else would be revealed after the bead blast. Crack was hidden in the paint.

So add another fan as being unserviceable.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Date: October 31, 2018 05:25AM

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back to cracks on the magnesium fans. I just bead
> blasted a fan and found a crack at the blade root
> outer edge. I could see the corrosion issues on
> the bottom, but wanted to see what else would be
> revealed after the bead blast. Crack was hidden
> in the paint.
>
> So add another fan as being unserviceable.


Are you giving it away? I'll take it. JB WELD and powdercoat, that thing will be fine on my 80hp.

1961 Corvair 700 Sedan - 3sp - Gasoline Heat - Lowered a bit - Rust in Progress
I live my life 19.5 seconds at a time.


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 31, 2018 05:44AM

Your 80 up would spin as fast as any 110 or 140, so exploding on your engine with the repair you describe would still be a high possibility. This is not going to be a freebie to anyone for an operating engine installation.

It is going to be cleaned up and chrome painted. It will then given to a club for a purpose they will decide on. Thinking a Monza horn button might snap into it or a clock will mount in it.

I will not allow this fan to be put back on an engine, so fan will be adjusted somewhat to make it noticeably unusable. Ever seen scalloped fan blades. Not all, just 3 of them.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 31, 2018 07:28AM

The cut down fans for racing remove that bad area.

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 31, 2018 08:42AM

But don't you think it would be a unique award at one of the Vair functions.

I have an orange painted fan that has been modified for racing, I suspect. That one I have tried to sell, but no takers yet.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: October 31, 2018 12:28PM

I thought you posted the pictures because it is Halloween !grinning smiley

Use a cutting torch to modify. There will be no fan left. Wear welding eye protection as Magnesium burns bright. I jest with this suggestion. Do NOT try this at home. eye popping smiley

This fan is most probably a 65-69 bearing size so will not fit 60 to 64 bearing/hub. With any crack showing I would not use it.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 31, 2018 12:46PM

Frank:

You are right. It is a 65 -69 magnesium fan. I thought that is a known fact that magnesium fans used 0n 65 - 69 engines, unless someone upgraded their earlier engines to run the magnesium fan.

The fan is not orange. Those photos were taking in the kitchen under LED lights with no flash. Attached is one of the same fan using flash taken in the kitchen also.

So I believe it is not safe to recycle fans in a recycle yard as they normally do not come in contact with magnesium components. I think my way to keep it off engines and repurpose it is unique. But someone probably has already done a few already.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 31, 2018 01:17PM

1964 signaled the beginning of the magnesium fans on Corvairs. With the smaller bearing mount.

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: October 31, 2018 07:57PM

Right, 64 is the odd year. Magnesium fan with small center bearing hole with 4 larger bolt holes. The Magnesium hub area did not change dimension from 64 to 65,and you can see there was not enough meat left after making the bearing hole larger for the bolt holes to be the same early size, so they made them smaller.

I knew it was lighting, sure looked neat for today.winking smiley

I like the idea of using it as a trophy.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: November 01, 2018 03:48PM

Frank:

Here is cracked fan setup to be mounted to an award plaque. Just need to get it to Dean, so they have time to prepare it for the Helen event.


ps. 2 mount holes enlarged to weaken the mounting surface severely. Other 2 holes are used to run screws through to hold horn button on.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 03:49PM by Lane66m.

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: November 01, 2018 06:58PM

That's going to be a sharp looking award!

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: November 01, 2018 07:12PM

I have sent an email with photo to Dean. We shall see what he says.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 01, 2018 07:15PM

NICE Al, lets see one with a 3 prong spinner.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: vairsUPnorth ()
Date: November 01, 2018 08:10PM

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back to cracks on the magnesium fans. I just bead
> blasted a fan and found a crack at the blade root
> outer edge. I could see the corrosion issues on
> the bottom, but wanted to see what else would be
> revealed after the bead blast. Crack was hidden
> in the paint.
>
> So add another fan as being unserviceable.

Boy, there is some serious pitting on that fan--exactly what I would expect as the result of the acid mist from an overcharged, unvented battery.

[corvaircenter.com]

Dale Dewald
Hancock, MI

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: November 02, 2018 02:54AM

Sorry, J.O. No more bad fans and I have no 3 bar spinners. Someone else will have to setup that one.

Dale, that fan cam off an engine that was in a car parked in a dealer's field for 30+ years. It could have come from the car that the battery case had deteriorated and spilled its contents when the plastic case ruptured.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: November 19, 2018 03:33AM

J.O.

I found 2 more cracked fans. Send me a 3 bar spinner and I will mount it on the one I own. I have a Monza horn button and a front axle dust cap that can be used on them also. The one I own will be going to the SpringFest Planning Committee when it is ready. The other I have to obtain the owner's ok to use it for an award.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 19, 2018 07:10PM

Al, I would love to help, but I have already given all of my less than great quality 3 prongs to members of this group for their drivers.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Magnesium Fans
Posted by: EM-racer ()
Date: November 20, 2018 06:51AM

From all of the above posts the one picture of failed fan was caused by cracks and corrosion around the top at mounting hole area, if that area is sound and you have a few small stress cracks and minimal corrosion in the other areas I would paint over the cracks and corrosion and use it !!!! out of sight out of mind !!!!
Gene Barr
Eustis, Fl

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