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Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 07, 2018 06:30AM

As the subject says this is about the pan gasket. It seems to be the most sought after remedy for oil leaks and also the most abused. What I am about to say is but one way that has worked for me, there are a hundred other ways that seem to work for other people. This method is for the stock steel pan. I also exclusively use the cork/nitrile gasket.

To start you need to remove the pan, with the oil already removed or you will have a mess you won't like! The block and the pan need to be cleaned and oil free. I use brake kleen or carb clean for the oil. You can wire brush and/or scrape but clean and dry is the word. The next step is to use a ball peen hammer, (aka davemotohead!) except a smaller hammer, to bang the pan bolt holes at least flat or even concave as viewed from the gasket side. You also need to clean the bolts! There are 2 styles of bolts used, both are 7/16" head 1/4-20 thread and 1/2" long. The early style has a lock washer under the head and the late style has a built in flat washer. GM found there was a problem with the early style and changed.

When it comes time for the installation if I have the early style lock washer bolts I get 19 flat washers for the bolts, the late style bolts already have the washers built in as I said. I put the washers on the early bolts in prep for the installation. With that I put RTV on the pan and make sure you always get the RTV on the inside edge of the bolt hole otherwise the oil can seep past the bolt. Once you have a FILM not a large bead put the gasket on the pan and then do the same for the gasket. Be careful around the cam gear area as there is not a lot of room there for any extra squeezings! The little area of the gasket that goes between the gear and the block does not need any RTV just around the bolt holes and the center front bolt is also a very thin area and close to the cam gear. Once yo have the RTV on the gaket you are ready to wipe the block off one more time with your cleaner. Grab 2 bolts and then set the pan on the block and start the 2 bolts to hold everything in place. Start ALL of the bolts before you tighten anything. There is a pattern to tightening the pan bolts and you start with the center 4 bolts of the long sides then do the next 4 on the long sides, now go to the ends. On the rear it is simple do the center 2 bolts, now move to the front and do the 2 bolts to the rear of the cam then do the front center bolts and go back and finish the corners.

Bolt tightening! You will NOT tighten the bolts, you will only snug them and just twisting with a nut driver you can already over torque! Look at the gasket as you tighten, you do not want to squeeze the gasket out just snug. It takes practice. Once all of the bolts are at the same snugness, it will take about 2 more rounds of checking, just walk away and leave the gasket alone at least over night or all day. Do not rush this. After the waiting period now you can tighten the bolts, you will feel the pan bend under the bolts and you look at the gasket as you tighten, when the gasket STARTS to either crush or expand out at the bolt, STOP! That is tight enough.

As I mentioned there are many other ways this can work, find a way that works for you and use it. I need to do this later today so I will add pictures then.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: 65CrownV8 ()
Date: January 07, 2018 06:45AM

Ken,

How much time do you allow for curing of the RTV before final assembly. I find that cure time makes a big difference in whether there will be future leaks. I typically lay the gasket along side the pan and do a very small bead (1/16") inside perimeter of both, then around each bolt hole, and let cure for about 20 minutes before assembly.

George Jones - East Orlando, FL
'65 Monza V8 Convertible - 355/4-spd Posi - TT015
'66 Monza Coupe - 95/PG
'67 Monza Coupe 140/4-spd/Posi, A/C
COrvaiR Society of America (CORSA), Central Florida Corvair Club, Tidewater Corvair Club, V8 Registry

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: January 07, 2018 08:17AM

Thanks Ken!

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
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NFCC
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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 07, 2018 08:36AM

My cure time is with the parts together, that is the reason for the assembly and the wait period for the final tightening of the bolts.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: January 07, 2018 09:09AM

Ken,
Many thanks for sharing this procedure with us. But there is one item I would like to suggest. Use longer bolts! You specified 1/2" but there aren't many threads left after a washer, oil pan and gasket take up most of that bolt length. In addition, the bolt holes in the case are much longer. So may I suggest 3/4" long bolts for the blind holes and 7/8" long bolts for the open holes.

Regards,
Bob Helt

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: January 07, 2018 09:19AM

I agree with the description / procedure described by Ken for the most part as it is good accurate advise.

For me (and in my opinion) I use the gasket sealer to simply hold the gasket from moving around during the installation. I typically rely on the gasket to do the actual sealing. I also only apply the sealant on the oil pan side, not the block. (Again, this is my personal preference)

My logic is that it makes removing the gasket from the block later on to be easier and reduces the chance of damage to the block gasket surface. It is also easier to remove the gasket sealer from the pan as it can be done while out from under the vehicle.

When preparing the pan for installation, as Ken mentioned, it is extremely important that the pan is as flat as possible with no convex bumps around the bolt holes on the block side.
I fully endorse the ball pein method mentioned and also prefer the cork gasket over the rubber one.

1962 95 F.C. Van
1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2018 09:19AM by Caraholic4life.

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 07, 2018 09:49AM

Interesting!

Ken is talking about SEALING gasket Surfaces using a "skimcoat"....and his "cure / setup method" is correct... the only way!

Caraholic is talking about using Silicone as an "adhesive"....

Then, of course, there is the "Form-a-gasket" use...

When making a "gasket", IE: you have no gasket... or there are Voids in the Gasket you are using...

You form the "gasket" with the Silicone and then let set for at least 24 hrs.... and, of course, never use more than is absolutely necessary to fill the void.

After drying / curing you can use a "Skimcoat" on the whole surface as a sealer..





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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 07, 2018 09:50AM

Though the pan and bolts I am in agreement, the RTV application I apply differently. I lay the cork gasket on cardboard. I apply gray sealant on the gasket then smoothing it out with a light weight putty knife to a thin coating until I have it thoroughly covered. I let that side become dry to the touch, then flip it over and repeat on the other side. I lay the gasket on the pan and run a non pan bolt through the holes so no gobs are in the holes. I allow the last coat to dry and then install. Bolts all installed loosely, then tightened from center outward, alternating each side of center. Just the way my dad did cork gaskets on his old 235 ci, 250 ci, and 283 ci engines. He didn't have silicone by that god awful stuff they back in the day to seal these gaskets. Worked hours to get cork gaskets off using gasoline.

ps: This technique worked fine on the 3 Saturn engines I rebuilt back in 2004. One is still running fine. One lost a replacement timing tensioner (China) and one a young kid drove it like a race car.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: January 07, 2018 10:09AM

Actually, I was not talking about using silicone for anything, but then again in this post, I was not specific. Personally I prefer Permatex gasket cement used sparingly.

However with that said...Many years ago when I worked at my local Chevrolet Dealer in the parts department, GM actually experimented with using RTV Silicone as a sealer in place of gaskets. I wasn't a fan of it back then, and am still not a fan of using Silicone by it's self as gasket material. I can however see where in some instances where it is possibly the only option available at the moment.

We all have our own preferences and if yours works for you, then it is the right one. JMO

1962 95 F.C. Van
1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: January 07, 2018 12:28PM

I used Ken's method. No leaks. Not a drop! Not even a little seap. Dry as a bone!

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2018 12:29PM by Nickshu.

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 07, 2018 04:06PM

The GB oil pan is still dry also, after 9 days. Woo, hoo. Oh. still got to put oil in, don't I. grinning smiley

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 07, 2018 04:33PM

This will be a little disjointed but here are the pictures to go with the write-up.

To start with this is probably your typical over torqued oil pan and what it looks like.




I got this at Harbor Freight and can be your best friend! A vise works also but this is way easier!


There is a way that I have found that works very well for holding the pan to beat the holes the other way. You put the corner of whatever you use on the corner of the pan and then the outer edge on the flat. I have also used a 2X4! Use the end of the 2X4. here is how you hold the pan, if you just put the pan edge and then the pan bottom down you end up bending the pan.


Here is what it looks like after you beat it to death! As you can see it doesn't need to perfect and as I mentioned even concave!


Here are the bolt holes all finished. This isn't a new pan and it does not have to look like it either, function over looks for a street non-show car.


If you look you saw the drain plug was sort of pushed in from probably hitting something? Here it is all straightened out along with the pan flattened.


If you remember I talked about washers, they go on the early pan bolts. like this.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves though I did say that I use RTV! A little bit goes a long ways.


Pictures are deceiving and that looks like there is a tone of RTV there so here is a side view.


Here is what I use, forget the tubes! this has it's own power inside to dispense and I can control how much and how fast I want it to come out.


Remember when I said there wasn't much room around the cam gear? Also look at the RTV and where it is NOT. Remember I said circle the bolt holes?



The next step is installing the pan. I also said to snug the bolts? Check out the picture. The bolt holes in the pan are not even flattened out!



The pan will stay like that for the night and in the morning I will go back and tighten the bolts the rest of the way. I'll show before and after pics tomorrow.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 07, 2018 04:39PM

Ken:

What do think of the longer serrated head bolts? Use them - yes or no? With or without 1/2" flat washers?

Seems everyone has a trick.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 07, 2018 06:21PM

I don't use serrated bolts anywhere, not even on the aluminum pans. I use flat washers and lock washers.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 07, 2018 08:29PM

Thanks, Ken. I will move the serrated bolts I got with the Greenbrier to my loose hardware box for other uses. I installed 3/4" captive washer bolts on the Greenbrier oil pan. Having bought a box of 100 a few years ago, I have enough to do a few pans.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 08, 2018 05:02AM

Let me qualify why I don't use the serrated bolts. First off yes they do hold! On the other hand how many times can you remove a serrated bolt before the part you are holding is not usable because the head of the bolt tears material every time you remove it.
I have removed the serrated bolts from aluminum pans and rocker covers and have taken almost 1/16" of material under the head. They work better on steel but still scrape off material.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: January 08, 2018 11:23AM

The devil is in the detail, and there is nothing wrong with that careful approach, but I do it differently, based also on what is available here.

First, I use longer bolts
Second, I use the local version of locktite on them
Third, I use thicker gasket material.
Forth, after flattening the pan, I use Gasket Shellac on all sides.

Mine has been dry since I went this way instead of silicon 6 years ago.

Restoration in Bolivia
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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: January 08, 2018 01:43PM

I never use silicone ever on anything and do not have leaks.





Email me at: Dave Motohead

1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: January 08, 2018 04:06PM

I do it even more simply. I use the hard cardboard type gasket with a thin coat of grey RTV sealer on both sides. Tighten it down good and snug and you are ready to go. Don't have to worry about over tightening nor having to retighten.

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Re: Oil Pan Gasket Sealing
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 08, 2018 05:24PM

Here is a video of the final tightening of the oil pan from this morning.

[www.youtube.com]

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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