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Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: December 25, 2017 11:52AM

Am in need of a new master cylinder for my project car. Have gone through 3 so far, and found nothing but junk, non-rebuildable Corvair ones. Am considering just going down to the NAPA store and buying one.

Problem is, I have heard that there is some difference between an OEM Corvair cylinder and the "taken from stock, over the counter" replacements offered by the average parts houses. Is there any truth to that? Am I going to have to insist on a genuine CORVAIR cylinder?

-Mark

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: Seth Emerson ()
Date: December 25, 2017 12:20PM

Define "Non-rebuildable". White Post does Stainless steel liner rebuilds and that would be forever - or as long as we will last, Mark!

[whitepost.com]

Seth Emerson

Check my new Performance Corvair Web site [www.perfvair.com]

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: jmaechtlen ()
Date: December 25, 2017 12:32PM

Some of the modern master cylinders are of aluminum - I'd be tempted by the weight saving, in spite of questionable longevity.

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: December 25, 2017 12:43PM

Only difference I see is a bolt-on cap instead of the bail.
I have put them on numerous cars including my 67.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: Jim Stukenborg ()
Date: December 25, 2017 12:48PM

Mark, what I might be concerned about is the M/C is designed for a drum brake car. I believe that M/C's for a drum brake use have a restriction to slow down the fluid flow back when one lets up on the brake pedal. Jim

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: rowin4 ()
Date: December 25, 2017 08:25PM

just because it's sold at a NAPA store doesn't mean it's the best made or rebuilt . I have got a bad master cylinder from NAPA . They did replace it but not all the brake fluid I used trying to make the brakes work

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: December 26, 2017 04:27AM

I always purchase new Raybestos master cylinders from a local company "Brake and Equipment Supply", regular left outlet for LM and Dodge style right outlet for EM. I've never had any trouble with them. There's a larger pot Corvette one that's left outlet which fits the bill but I haven't felt the need to use one.
I don't like the idea of purchasing rebuilt master cylinders in these days of questionable quality.
There was a thread on here last year regarding master cylinders where the conclusion seemed to be that there were no internal valving issues with the master cylinders. I believe that but you might want to do a search and draw your own conclusions.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: December 26, 2017 05:47AM

Jim, do you have a specific Dodge rs outlet model # or application info?

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: December 26, 2017 10:25AM

I got a 68 MC from Napa last summer for my 65 brake conversion, front drum to disc. It seems to work fine and stops well. I need to bleed it more as the pedal is a little soft and low.

rowen4, what was the failure in the Napa cyl. you had to return? Just wondering if I am chasing an issue that cannot be solved by bleeding.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: December 26, 2017 11:13AM

AFAIK - the only units manufactrured (and sold under different names) is the MC with the square bolt on cover. That doesn't count the specialty stuff from some of the aftermarket brake suppliers, like aluminum MC's

The last new MC I bought with the OEM style oblong cover and wire retainer only lasted a year. I've installed the "square top" units in a couple of cars over the last few years without issue.

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: December 26, 2017 12:55PM

BobV66Vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got a 68 MC from Napa last summer for my 65
> brake conversion, front drum to disc. It seems to
> work fine and stops well. I need to bleed it more
> as the pedal is a little soft and low.
>
> rowen4, what was the failure in the Napa cyl. you
> had to return? Just wondering if I am chasing an
> issue that cannot be solved by bleeding.


Try adjusting the rear brakes, before bleeding, since, if the rear brake shoes are not in close contact with the drums, it can lead to a low pedal, and a soft pedal.

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: December 26, 2017 03:57PM

Not sure if anyone mentioned it - but I learned the hard way to bench bleed a new dual MC to get ALL the air out. Note - when bench bleeding DO NOT bottom out the plunger. The best tool is one that routes the fluid from the ports back to the reservoir, but the outlet stays BELOW the fluid level.

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: December 26, 2017 05:02PM

Seth, the cylinders I've encountered are so corroded as to be impossible to get the front plunger out. You'd probably have to drill it out, if that were feasible.

Thanks to all. I feel more comfortable using a non-Corvair one now.

-Mark

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: December 26, 2017 06:29PM

I'm on my 3rd one from Napa for my '64. They were supposedly new and the 2 bad ones stuck down. Never had that type of failure before.
One failed driving the car and stuck on the floor. Good thing no one was in front of me. The other just quit returning completely and the brake light wouldn't go out. The 3rd seems to be the charm since it's been working over a year now. No issues getting them replaced.
They have the bail on top but unlike the stock one they have an extra plugged port on the end.

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: December 26, 2017 08:09PM

67 airvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seth, the cylinders I've encountered are so
> corroded as to be impossible to get the front
> plunger out. You'd probably have to drill it out,
> if that were feasible.
>
> Thanks to all. I feel more comfortable using a
> non-Corvair one now.
>
> -Mark

If you soak the casting in a rust dissolving material, such as Evapo-Rust, you should be able to get the old part out. I had a valuable master cylinder casting that I wanted to save, and that is how I was able to get it apart. Let it soak for about a week, and then slammed it down, open end first, on a 6"x6" block of wood. A few slams, and it popped out. If brute force doesn't get it out, then drill the center of the piston, and insert a tap into the hole, and tap it. Then screw a piece of threaded rod into the piston. Put a washer over the threaded rod, and start tightening a nut onto the rod. You will essentially be building your own "puller". Once you get the part out, I suggest sending the master cylinder to Apple Hydraulics. They sleeve the part with brass, which doesn't come loose, like stainless steel sleeves sometimes do. The last one that I had done, was about $120, including return shipping. Turn around time is usually about 10 days.

www.applehydraulics.com/

Apple Hydraulics
Hydraulic Repair Service
Address: 1610 Middle Rd,
Calverton, NY 11933
Phone (631) 369-9515

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: December 27, 2017 04:50AM

These are Raybestos numbers.
For LM I use 36233 left outlet.
For EM I use 36237 right outlet.
The bigger Corvette left outlet is 36367.
I like to use the stock Tee for the fronts and EM has more room to make the bend.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: December 27, 2017 04:52AM

The EM picture didn't come up, I'll try again.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: December 27, 2017 05:43AM

thanks, jim! Just ordered one.

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2017 05:51AM by toms73novass.

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: MonzaJPD61 ()
Date: December 27, 2017 01:13PM

What material are those brake lines in the LM photo?

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Re: Any difference in dual master cylinders OEM vs new NAPA part?
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: December 27, 2017 01:19PM

They look like cupronickel. That is what I used on my car, no rust!

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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