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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: December 23, 2017 11:26AM

Please understand why I am going to do this task by the book.

This Greenbrier will be sold someday. I don't want something like an alternator fan coming back off to bite me in the butt, even though it is an "as is" sale. New to Vair owners will probably expect it to last awhile before issues show up, no matter what you tell them you did to the vehicle. I expect the sale will be a local sale only. There are only 3 other Vair owners within 50 miles and they have expressed no interest in the van.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: December 23, 2017 03:21PM

Al, that does surprise me, not having a combination wrench in 15/16". I must have gotten my first one in a Craftsman set when I was a teenager. It is the common wrench size for a 5/8" bolt.

[www.boltdepot.com]

And therefore used on generators/alternators/tools with 5/8" shafts. I do not use it as often as 1/2", but it doesn't get lost in the wrench drawer under everything else.

PS, the HF version will be fine. I have some of those also.thumbs up HF, Allied, TAT, whatever. Even Craftsman is only ~$12.

If the nut does come loose, just look at the video I linked to above to see what happens. At least it is an easy fix.grinning smiley But of course, most people would jump to replacing the alternator, making it a more expensive fix, and that IS why you want to do it right!smileys with beer

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: December 23, 2017 03:47PM

Remember the Corvair alternator uses a wave washer and lock nut; typical alternator uses lock washer and normal nut.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: December 23, 2017 06:21PM

I put a rebuild alt on my wife's aunt's Honda and after a short time she said it was making some noise. She also said that she found a part on her garage floor. The part turned out to be the nut and washer off of the alt. So I asked her if it was still charging and she said yes. After I looked at it I discovered that after the nut got loose and the pulley started slipping it first enlarged the hole and then it got hot enough to weld the pulley to the shaft. So it was still charging but the pulley did wobble a little bit. Probably when the engine came to a stop in the garage the nut kept turning the last little bit to spin off.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: December 23, 2017 06:50PM

Frank:

When I left the Marines in 1985, I bought my first Craftsman tool set with a tool chest and roll-away. The setup cost a big $400. I still have a list of the tools that came with the tool set. Wrenches were 1/4 thru 9/16. Just like today, their sets don't include the bigger wrenches. I purchased a more complete wrench set later which doubled up the smaller sizes and went up to 1", but the new set still did not include the 15/16. That still goes today with the sets they sell. That one 15/16 combination wrench is a cool $16 to purchase it.

The only 15/16 tools I have are my 1/2 drive sockets shallow and deep chrome plated and shallow and deep impact.

Will I invest in the Craftsman 15/16 wrench? I'll let Donna make that decision. She was with me tonight in the garage in my experiment with an alternator. I don't think it is needed. My next post will explain why and may help others to know how to set up a torque wrench to torque the alternator fan nut.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: December 23, 2017 07:10PM

About a hour ago, Donna and I went to the garage and grabbed an alternator to see if we had the tools to hold the fan nut and torque on the armature shaft.

My toolbox had no 15/16 wrenches but had 15/16 sockets. I had the needed 5/16 Allen wrench. Donna found she had an off brand 15/16 combination wrench in her tool chest. Great, it will work (if it don't slip or break).

Now the issue is mating a typical 4 inch 90 degree bent Allen wrench to a torque wrench. No biggie. Drag out the side grinder and cut of 1" of it for placement in a socket.

So now I have a 15/16 combination wrench holding the fan nut, a 5/16 straight Allen wrench in the shaft and a 5/16 3/8 drive socket mated to the Allen wrench. Add a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter and the 1/2 drive torque wrench is ready to go to work.thumbs up

Could of done this last night instead of going out and having beers with our friends. Nah. having fun and drinking a couple beers was needed after a busy week being retired.smileys with beer

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: phill66 ()
Date: December 23, 2017 07:40PM

I encountered this same situation last spring. Having limited tools, skills and
ability, I just took the old and new alternators back to the auto parts store where
I purchased the new alternator. I had to take the old core back there anyway.
They had the necessary tools, skills and ability to swap out the pulleys in a matter
of minutes at no cost. No skinned knuckles or FUBAR nut, problem solved. Sometimes
it's easier to forego the test of manhood.

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: December 23, 2017 09:42PM

Well, I waited until the temps got above freezing today(after noon) and took both alternators down to the shop at work(1 mile from home).
Drop my allen in the vise as told, and Voila.
Headed back home in about 2 minutes.
Mounted that puppy up and was driving the Vert all day today.
Be heading over the border with it tomorrow for CHRISTmas at mum-in-laws.
Gotta say,
I LOVE MY VAIRS ! ! !
smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley smiling bouncing smiley

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: December 23, 2017 10:29PM

Excellent for AL and Mel!smileys with beer

No need to buy new tools! Just know where they can be found.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: December 24, 2017 02:20AM

But it was a lost opportunity to add new tools to the collection. A big waaaah.😭

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Ed Dowds ()
Date: December 24, 2017 07:07AM

I use the proper size allen wrench, clamped in the vice and a 15/16 socket that came with the 80 year old SK set I inherited from my gandfather. I use a pipe.wrench on the socket.
I have never used that socket for any other purpose and it is easy to find because of the wrench marks on the socket.

Ed
Hillsborough, NJ
66 500 rear 4.3 V6 Corvair
69 350/350 TH Camaro was RS
30 Model A Ford Streetrod 350/400 TH
88 Celebrity Wagon (Daily Driver)

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 14, 2018 04:10PM

I finally got to take off the pulley on the Greenbrier alternator. I did use the leather glove instead of a rag this time. (Thanks 66VairMana for reminding me I had some gloves) I still used an air impact wrench. Nut came loose on first trigger pull.

Used my 3/8 drive inch-pounds torque wrench and 15/16 box end wrench to torque it. Good thing this torque wrench can apply reverse torque. Otherwise I would be looking for a 15/16 box-end crows-foot to do the torque procedure the manual calls out. (Hmm, just the way I was starting out in the beginning)

SECTION 6Y
ENGINE ELECTRICAL
Page 6Y-10
4. Using a torque wrench with a crow-foot adapter (instead of a box wrench), torque nut 50 to 60 ft.-lbs. (fig. 15c).

Anyway, task is done. Now for a beer or two. MAYBEspinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 14, 2018 04:20PM

Oh yeah. Anyone want to try and figure out the true torque the engineers want on the alternator fan nut?

If you look at the picture, the specified tools has the torque wrench at least 1.5 inches away from the nut.

SECTION 6Y
ENGINE ELECTRICAL
Page 6Y-10
4. Using a torque wrench with a crow-foot adapter (instead of a box wrench), torque nut 50 to 60 ft.-lbs. (fig. 15c).

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: January 14, 2018 08:33PM

I use 50 ft-lbs using the setup you have.

The calculation would be

What to set or read wrench = wanted torque x length of torque wrench
Divided by length of torque wrench plus length of crowsfoot

SO, if 15" wrench is used and crowsfoot is 1.5"

50 ft lbs x 15" / 15 + 1.5 = 45.45 ft lbs.

I guess I should use 60 grinning smiley

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 14, 2018 08:46PM

There is NO WAY you going to tighten to 50-60 ft. lbs. with a hand wrench unless you can generate that kind of torque in about a foot (if you can I don't want to get into a fight with you - LOL.)

Yes the ENGINEERS knew this was a good value. Yes an impact wrench at maximum torque works fine.

Yes I have seen wrench tightened nuts COME LOOSE and ruin the alternator!

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Seth Emerson ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:01PM

Add to the tool box, a set of 3/8 drive hex-drive tip sockets. They make them tough!

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 14, 2018 09:32PM

Frank: Actually the torque that was applied in the photo was more than the 50-60 ft-lbs since the working length was increased. At a 2 inch increase with a 18 inch beam torque wrench, the torque applied will be 55.5 to 66.6 ft-lbs. The engineers should have taken the photo with the crows-foot at a 90 degree angle to negate the crows-foot length.

Seth: Hopefully that will be the last one I do, but I am ready for another if needed.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: January 15, 2018 10:52AM

Al, the 2" you are speaking of, is it the socket length?

If it is, there would not be a change in torque amount, Only the perpendicular distance to the faster applies to the torque value.

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: January 15, 2018 11:42AM

Tom:

:t is the length of the crows foot the toque wrench is moved away from the center of the fan nut. I just used 2" as it was a round number. I have no ides how long that crowsfoot is that the GM engineers used.

You have to figure change of length from center of nut to center of torque wrench then use that dimension to evaluate the new reduce torque to be applied. Just like Frank did earlier with the 1.5 inch increased length to accomplish the torque application properly..

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Alternator pulley nut
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: January 15, 2018 12:37PM

Ok, didn't realize you were referencing the crows foot distance. Were on the same page. thumbs up

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block
86' BMW 325es
98' Dodge 2500 12v Cummins Diesel with 1200 lb torque!
98' VW Jetta TDI, for daughter
01' Audi Allroad Stage 3 twin turbo

NFCC
Grand Island, NY

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