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Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: December 15, 2017 06:50AM

I have an idea to use an exhaust driven turbo to drive the cooling air on a Corvair engine. I’ll use an electric fan for the intercooler. The turbo won’t be in the engine compartment.

It’s in the concepeptual phase with all the details to workout. This Will be designed for a high performance engine.
Other ideas include a twin turbo. One for combustion and one for cooling air.the back-pressure details will be considered.

It’s Not going to happen anytime soon but...
Patent pending 😉




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: December 15, 2017 07:08AM

I like it! The energy is there (might even be enough) and it's proportional to load. It's going to take someone who's trained in thermodynamics to determine if there's enough energy-content in the exhaust to provide the 5-10hp that might be needed for cooling.

Could work if the energy is there and given mechanical losses and conversion efficiency it would probably take 2x -3x the hp needed for actual cooling.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2017 07:10AM by cnicol.

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: December 15, 2017 07:21AM

Another motivater is the tuning improvement with all cylinders at the same or closer temps. that could be an HP offset.




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: December 15, 2017 10:31AM

Ever consider ejector cooling a la Tatra?

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: December 15, 2017 02:55PM

Jerry,just Checked out that car. Pretty amazing 😎




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: December 15, 2017 07:33PM

Ejector cooling.
Using the force of the exhaust flow to suck the heated air from the engine.
Am I getting that correctly?
Judging from the size of those side scoops, it looks like it has some good ram-air helping out there.
If that is the case, you better be driving FAST everywhere you go!

.
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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: December 15, 2017 07:43PM

Okay, I love people thinking outside of the box!
I really like to see it when there are truly innovative ideas that bring about a paradigm shift in thinking.
I would love to see this "Turbo Cooling" work, but I just don't see it.
It is not April 1st. so I am not sure if you are trolling or not.
Turbo engines run hotter, so using an exhaust driven blower(which creates heat) to reduce heat, just does not compute in my poor little brain.
I hate to be the guy that just out of hand says "It can't be done."
But I can not see how it can be done!
Are you just mocking the electric fan guys over on the other 2 threads that are running right now?
There is just no way around diminishing returns, and that is what this looks like to me.eye rolling smiley

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: December 15, 2017 07:51PM

Mel good point about trolling. Seems you do it often. I think it would work but I don’t know. It will be fun to try though.




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: December 15, 2017 07:59PM

Chilly Willy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mel good point about trolling. Seems you do it
> often.
I think it would work but I don’t know.
> It will be fun to try though.

winking smiley

While I am doubting its ability, I really will be interested in following this idea.
Can't wait to watch your thread.thumbs up
I hope I am wrong.hot smiley

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: December 17, 2017 05:22AM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I love people thinking outside of the box!
> I really like to see it when there are truly
> innovative ideas that bring about a paradigm shift
> in thinking.
> I would love to see this "Turbo Cooling" work, but
> I just don't see it.
> It is not April 1st. so I am not sure if you are
> trolling or not.
> Turbo engines run hotter, so using an exhaust
> driven blower(which creates heat) to reduce heat,
> just does not compute in my poor little brain.
> I hate to be the guy that just out of hand says
> "It can't be done."
> But I can not see how it can be done!
> Are you just mocking the electric fan guys over on
> the other 2 threads that are running right now?
> There is just no way around diminishing returns,
> and that is what this looks like to me.eye rolling smiley

Have any of the electric fan proponents considered harvesting kinetic energy to power a blower?

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Pedigo ()
Date: December 17, 2017 05:44AM

JerryM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ever consider ejector cooling a la Tatra?


The Tatra and Tempo Matadore are two of my favorite bucket list vehicles.

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: December 17, 2017 05:56AM

Pedigo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JerryM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ever consider ejector cooling a la Tatra?
>
>
> The Tatra and Tempo Matadore are two of my
> favorite bucket list vehicles.

The 1955 Tatra JK2500 is a favorite of mine. Had they actually built it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2017 05:58AM by JerryM.

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Re: Air cooled V8 GT - Tatra JK2500
Date: December 17, 2017 09:34AM

More on Julius Kubinsky's air-cool V8 GT.

This beauty has got to be out there somewhere, I hope.


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Air cooled V8 GT - Tatra JK2500
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 17, 2017 09:44AM

!interesting!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: jmaechtlen ()
Date: December 17, 2017 10:03PM

Well - using an exhaust-driven turbine to power an engine cooling fan?
It may be tough to find a fan that will flow the volume needed at the (fairly small) pressure required, that will run at speeds compatible with a suitable turbine. Turbos usually spin at 80,000 plus, right?

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 17, 2017 10:49PM

Normally when you start the engine.... the little exhaust flow and the intake's suction will spin the Turbo probably 2000 rpm? Then as you add "load-acceleration" the exhaust flow increases dramatically due to rpm of engine [ an air compressor ] and Thermal expansion of the air.

Quote
charles's law
Thermal expansion is the tendency of matter to change in shape, area, and volume in response to a change in temperature. Temperature is a monotonic function of the average molecular kinetic energy of a substance. When a substance is heated, the kinetic energy of its molecules increases.

It will be interesting to see what ChillyW finds when he tests a Turbo with the Compressor side open..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2017 10:56PM by MattNall.

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: December 18, 2017 04:48AM

Definitely in the concept phase.
A waste gate could act as a thermostat.

It should be a hybrid turbo. Depending on use, the turbo doesn’t have to be the only source of cooling air.

A radical design would include twin turbos feeding induction and cooling air.




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: December 18, 2017 07:22AM

Chilly Willy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Definitely in the concept phase.
> A waste gate could act as a thermostat.
>
> It should be a hybrid turbo. Depending on use,
> the turbo doesn’t have to be the only source of
> cooling air.
>
> A radical design would include twin turbos feeding
> induction and cooling air.

Or this. I believe these are producing up to 1100 watts

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: December 18, 2017 10:37AM

Nice Jerry 🤔That is thinking outside the box. 👍




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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Re: Turbo cooled corvair
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: December 18, 2017 11:11AM

That is a nice design. The generator can also maintain minimum turbine speed. For quicker transition.
F1=NASA for the automobile industry? 😎




The Corvair, Keeping Nader Notorious winking smiley


Will
Northern California

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