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Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RKF ()
Date: November 19, 2017 03:56PM

Whenever I corner in my Rampside, the steel edge of the brake shoes rub against the vertical face of the drums. This happens whether I am turning left or right.

Could this be a sign that the axle bearings are worn out?

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 19, 2017 04:00PM

NAW!! What wheels are you running....

Very unlikely the drums flex... and the Axle flange is thick and rigid...

Also have you worked on the brakes?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RKF ()
Date: November 19, 2017 04:21PM

I am running 15" wheels.

I did just finish rebuilding the wheel cylinders. However, the drums were rubbing before I did the brake work.

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: Leon ()
Date: November 19, 2017 04:51PM

Posting while tired isn't a good idea, by axle I assume you mean rear wheels and not fronts, if so yes worn out axle bearings will cause rubbing as will weak shoe retaining springs.

Star NC
1965 Monza Coupe, turbocharged 140/4spd, Carter AFB 4bbl, E-flow Crown turbo, water/meth injection, driver
1965 Corsa Coupe, 140/4spd, future project
1966 Monza Coupe, 110/4spd parts car
1966 Monza 'vert, 95/PG parts car
1985 Dodge W350 4dr turbocharged 440/4spd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2017 04:59PM by Leon.

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RKF ()
Date: November 19, 2017 04:56PM

Leon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inner wheel bearings worn or could even be the
> spindles themselves, seen both cause the problem
> you have.

I should have clarified; it is the rear brakes that are rubbing.

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: Leon ()
Date: November 19, 2017 05:01PM

I caught that just now and edited my previous post, too tired can't brain straight.

Star NC
1965 Monza Coupe, turbocharged 140/4spd, Carter AFB 4bbl, E-flow Crown turbo, water/meth injection, driver
1965 Corsa Coupe, 140/4spd, future project
1966 Monza Coupe, 110/4spd parts car
1966 Monza 'vert, 95/PG parts car
1985 Dodge W350 4dr turbocharged 440/4spd

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: November 19, 2017 09:19PM

I have a '63 van in my drive way that is doing the same thing. I bet when going around a corner the van leans enough so that when the suspension angle changes between the axle/drum and the trailing arm/shoes the drum and the shoe touch. The one I have is just touching the top edge of the trailing shoe. Before I put the drum back on I was going to grind just a little off of the shoe so there would be some room.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 19, 2017 10:12PM

Sagging Trans / engine mounts? Weak suspension springs?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: November 19, 2017 10:28PM

Means something is moving - axle flange or backing plate?

New shoes? Maybe the steel platform (material is mounted to) is slightly wider than stock?

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: Murphy ()
Date: November 20, 2017 02:59AM

Are you using the correct hold down pins/cups?

65 Monza Coupe
61 500 Coupe-W100181
Earliest '61?

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: November 20, 2017 10:10AM

The only way that can happen is if either the drum is moving or the shoes are moving. Otherwise they are kept at asolute locations that do not intersect. Very bad bearing might cause the drum to sag. That much sag would be dangerous. If the backing plate is not secure, it can cause your rub. Since the shoes were recently changed and the noise continues, most likely really bad bearing or the drum needs to be turned all the way to the center section. Rust build up can create a large ring on the inside and that can rub. No idea why only on turns. Maybe you only hear it on turns. Does it make any difference which direction you turn? Does it change with speed? Is it constant on turns or is it intermediate, like it hits one spot in the rotation? Have you noticed any places on the drum where it might be rubbing?

I think I would check the drum first and then the bearings. Bearings that worn are a safety hazard. You may also be hearing the tire or rim rubbing. You said your running 15" rims. Maybe a clearance issue?

Please post the result!

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 20, 2017 10:12AM

Bob... FC's / Rampsides are like EMS... Swing axle.... Drum moves in an arc...





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Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
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..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: November 20, 2017 12:54PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob... FC's / Rampsides are like EMS... Swing
> axle.... Drum moves in an arc...

Agreed - I've always been told the need for the spherical swing axle bearing was because the backing plate to axle geometry wasn't exact as the rear wheel moved up and down, basically the drums tilt with the axle in relationship to the backing plate.

Was I misinformed???

I have seen the axle/drum move in and out with relationship to the backing plate because of worn, or improperly shimmed, axle bearings. A club member pulled a supposedly "rebuilt" EM axle after a few of use inspected it and found a 1/4" of play in and out at the backing plate. It looked good with the new powerdercoat, but was junk.

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 20, 2017 01:44PM

somewhat correct...

Spherical bearing is just for axle within bearing movement due to the suspension design..

Sadly this results in the Drum to Backing plate angle changing...

1 Why it's important to have the rears on stands when adjusting manual adjuster brakes.

2 Why a rear EM/FC disc brake setup is tricky.... the "Floating caliper" must float in an arc.!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RKF ()
Date: November 20, 2017 04:29PM

Thanks to all for this wealth of information. I'm going to go after the easy fixes first by replacing all of the brake hardware. New kits are on order. I have to confess that I used the old springs when I put the brakes back together after the wheel cylinder rebuilds. Oh the shame. . .

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 20, 2017 05:18PM

Nothing wrong with re-using.... springs get weaker... not stiffer!

And make sure the Shoe Nails are correct length on the new kits..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: November 21, 2017 08:30AM

Also... when you have the brake drum off, check bearing end play wile its still mounted by pushing and pulling the axle in and out. This with the rear A arm supported in near riding level position.
Let us know what you find.smileys with beer

Corventure Dave

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: larry202br ()
Date: November 21, 2017 12:58PM

It's not clear to me, did you change shoes/or drums? If so, compare the dimensions of those new items to the old ones. The shoes might be wider.

1961 rampside with a 65 / 67 110 engine, car four speed.
1965 convertible
1966 Custom two door/four door

KC0SKX
Olathe, ks
HACOA

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RKF ()
Date: November 21, 2017 04:03PM

corventure Dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also... when you have the brake drum off, check
> bearing end play wile its still mounted by pushing
> and pulling the axle in and out. This with the
> rear A arm supported in near riding level
> position.
> Let us know what you find.smileys with beer
>
> Corventure Dave


Good idea. I'll let you know what I find.

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Re: Brake Shoes Rubbing Against Drums
Posted by: RKF ()
Date: November 21, 2017 04:04PM

larry202br Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not clear to me, did you change shoes/or
> drums? If so, compare the dimensions of those new
> items to the old ones. The shoes might be wider.

I did not change the shoes or drums. I just rebuilt the wheel cylinders. However, the drums were rubbing before I did the brake work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2017 04:07PM by MattNall.

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