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Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: rnch ()
Date: November 12, 2017 06:35AM

Although I do appreciate the faster gear ratio and the resulting less steering wheel winding; the increase in steering wheel effort is a disappointment for me.

As I don't do any "Wheel Winding" parallel parking or any gymkhana/off track racing anymore; I think i prefer the lighter, delightful low steering effort of the standard issue steering gear box over the fast ratio option.

How about YOU?

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: November 12, 2017 06:50AM

How much are you asking for your fast ratio steering box? I may know of some guys who are looking.

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: rnch ()
Date: November 12, 2017 07:03AM

WM: The fast ratio box was on a LM that I had in the past; sold a few years ago.

I waited SO long to get a car equipped with one; then was disappointed once I go it.


eye popping smiley

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: November 12, 2017 07:08AM

With stock width tires the additional effort is not much. With wide tires you will have more noticeable effort. I run mine with standard arms and it isn't bad

Lee J

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: November 12, 2017 07:29AM

One thing you should be aware of is that only part of the speed is gained in the box. The rest of it is with shorter steering arms. At present, I can't remember which is responsible for more of the speed, the arms or the box, though I've tried it both ways. It's about on the ration of 1/3 to 2/3's.

Bottom line is that if you just want a little faster ratio, use just one of the two, not both arms and box together.

-Mark

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: rnch ()
Date: November 12, 2017 07:39AM

67 airvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing you should be aware of is that only part
> of the speed is gained in the box. The rest of it
> is with shorter steering arms. At present, I can't
> remember which is responsible for more of the
> speed, the arms or the box, though I've tried it
> both ways. It's about on the ration of 1/3 to
> 2/3's.
>
> Bottom line is that if you just want a little
> faster ratio, use just one of the two, not both
> arms and box together.
>
> -Mark


SO true!

I drove a LM equipped with both options. At the time I was heavy into weight lifting and STILL had to "muscle" the steering wheel. I was shocked!

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: 2ragtops ()
Date: November 12, 2017 07:52AM

I sought out/hunted and found a complete set of arms and box, and just had to have it for my Corsa.

Now that I have it I hate it, if I wasn't' so lazy, I would take it off and sell it.

Probably good for racing, but for street driving it is a PAIN>

Bob Bauer

Show-Me Corvairs

1966 Monza Convert 140 P/G with A/C, plastic wheel with tele-column am-fm posi-traction
1966 Corsa Convert 180 wood wheel tele-column am-fm sport steering posi-traction
1965 Corsa Coupe Crown V8 mounted mid-body temporarily red lined for repair
House Springs, Missouri

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: November 12, 2017 07:56AM

My yellow Corsa has a quick box and the super short arms. it came to me this way as it was a autocross car in the 70's-80's, its 2-1/4 turns lock to lock,I have 225-50-15 tires on the front with 4:11 posi gears, its no fun trying to fit in that tight space in the parking lot, infact I do not even try to turn the wheel unless I am rolling, but carving a canyon its great, but a little twitchy on the road, But boy has it built up my upper body strentgh! grinning smiley





Email me at: Dave Motohead

1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)




Sign my guest book!
[motoheadmall.com]
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 12, 2017 08:04AM

Dav, you're not fooling us!! You just put lipstick on "The Garage Chicken" !!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: jimc ()
Date: November 12, 2017 08:14AM

I believe the GM QS arms are good for est., 3/4 to 1 turn, with the GM QS box and arms it is good for about 3 full turns lock to lock.

When I purchased our 1965 Corsa it had the standard box and 6.50/13 Phillips 66 tires on it, yeah, they were ancient and weather cracked and I only drove it onto a trailer and off then parked it for a 6 year restoration.

The standard box was vague and sloppy with 98,000 original chassis miles and a one owner car.

I immediately went in search and found a rebuilt box on Ebay and later GM QS arms and then a '66 steering column. I found all the other parts at Clarks and installed it with only drilling an additional hole for steering column mount plate.

I LOVE thw QS box even especially for street driving and I am running wide, 205/50-15 Kuhmo radials on all four corners. My choice of steering wheels made the "effort" worse. I removed the standard steering wheel and installed a 14-1/2" Nardi real wood that I kept from my 64 spyder which fit my later replacement steering column when I upgraded to a GM QS box/arm.

The 14-1/2" Nardit steering wheel made the steering effort very difficult at low speed, but I have not found the steering at highway speed to be too twitchy and the look out the windshield is pure classic. I did finally replace it with a GM simulated wood wheel which is on the car now and the effort is nothing compared to the smaller Nardi wheel.

Not many parallel parking areas in our town any more, but the steering effort is acceptable even for a slight build 68+ guy.

Love the GM QS box and arms!



Jimc
1965 Corsa

HACOA member
AACA 2015 Award
CORSA 2017 Concours Senior Award



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2017 08:19AM by jimc.

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: November 12, 2017 10:19AM

2ragtops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I sought out/hunted and found a complete set of
> arms and box, and just had to have it for my
> Corsa.
>
> Now that I have it I hate it, if I wasn't' so
> lazy, I would take it off and sell it.
>
> Probably good for racing, but for street driving
> it is a PAIN>


Would you sell them If I paid to have them changed? As long as the box is in good condition, I might

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: November 12, 2017 12:20PM

I put a FR box in my 1962 convert and there was a noticible increase in steering effort. then I drove a 1969 Stinger that of course had the QS and it actually required a lot less steering effort than my '62 with the FR box.
Bob Helt

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: November 12, 2017 12:27PM

Hey Motohead, just don't sneeze while driving down the interstate at 70+mph. You'll be across three lanes of traffic faster than someone can say "bless you!" eye popping smiley

-Mark

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: Seth Emerson ()
Date: November 12, 2017 01:37PM

In a box to box comparison, the FR quick box and the factory quick box were, when new, exactly the same. They are the same ratio of input to output. Any difference in feel or response is attributable to steering arms, alignment or(most likely) tires. Remember that GM installed the optional steering (only as a package, arms and box) on cars with skinny, hard 13" tires on 5.5" wheels. No problem. For autocross racing, I like quick box and aftermarket even shorter arms. I have enough adrenaline for a few minutes. I never recommend it for the street. When asked about the aftermarket box, I always ask about the tires and the steering wheel the person is running or contemplating. If they are going to use larger or wider tires, and/or a smaller Steering wheel, I suggested they try installing just the box (which was available at the time). You could do that without affecting the alignment at all, and it might provide all the responsiveness they need. My estimate is that the box alone is 65-70% of the way to the factory quick option. Any "lock to lock" comparison must be well defined because several factors affect it, not just the box.

Seth Emerson

Check my new Performance Corvair Web site [www.perfvair.com]

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 12, 2017 05:50PM

Moto,
that is just GROSS ! ! ! thumbs downeye rolling smileythumbs downsad smiley

WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: November 12, 2017 06:23PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Moto,
> that is just GROSS ! ! ! thumbs downeye rolling smileythumbs downsad smiley
-------------------------------------------------------
Hey now! Quit talking about my girl friend like that! angry smiley





Email me at: Dave Motohead

1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)




Sign my guest book!
[motoheadmall.com]
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: PGVair ()
Date: November 13, 2017 04:04PM

I have a '66 Monza coupe with factory QS box and the associated factory shorter steering arms, and I have another '66 Monza coupe with just the factory quick (shorter) arms. Both have close to the same size radial tires. The one with the QS box & arms has 205/70x14 tires and the one with just the arms has 195/75x14 tires. The QS box setup is 3-1/2 turns lock to lock and with just the arms is 4 turns lock to lock.

The one with the QS box is a little harder to turn, but not a problem; I'd say just a little harder than the other. I find it helps with the QS box to try to have the car moving slightly before trying to steer it. Neither are like cars with power steering that you can crank the steering wheel with one finger. I find running just the factory shorter arms is a good compromise and not much harder than standard length arms.

Also keep in mind that if other parts in the steering linkage (rods ends, idler arm and pitman bushing) are too tight, they can make it harder to turn the steering wheel. Carrying a 100-lb tool box in the trunk, like one of my club members does, can make a difference too.

Wade Lanning

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: jastranc ()
Date: November 13, 2017 05:06PM

I have FR quick box from Seth and I run GM factory quick arms on my 69 Monza/Corsa 180 turbo.With 215/60/14 on GM alum wheels and Grant Steering wheel it is arm strong steering in parking lot.This year I went 195/70/14 and steers better.I believe I am about 3 turns lock to lock.I might say it took 4 times to get Flaming River box that didn't leak.

Jim Stranc

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: john.jackson ()
Date: November 13, 2017 07:17PM

In 1971 I installed both the factory quick steering box and factory quick steering arms on my original 1969 Monza Coupe. At the time, I noticed more steering effort required, but I was just 23 and soon got used to the effort.

Today, I am 69 years old. I own a 1969 Monza convertible with the standard steering box and 185/70x 13 tires. Frankly, the Corvair steering effort is more than I recall

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Re: Fast Ratio vs. standard steering gear box
Posted by: MtnVairMike ()
Date: November 14, 2017 01:04PM

This is an interesting thread for sure. I am not alignment expert but I thought I read somewhere that using only the shorter arms and not the QS box messed with the Ackermann angle?

Maybe I'm dreaming, maybe I'm not...


[corvaircenter.com]

Thanks

Mike

1966 Monza Convertible, 140HP-4 speed, Ermine White

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