Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“Performance
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: November 10, 2017 08:54AM

180 turbo, basically stock. Only on occasion, maybe every 10th start. Not parked on incline. Major oil smoke - clears after 10-15 seconds of running.

Happens immediately, so not favoring the turbine seal. Compressor seal?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2017 11:27AM by MattNall.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 10, 2017 09:42AM

My '66 had done that before I got it... not making boost..... Fixed the Boost problem and ran it .....First time I made boost huge cloud....... then never again..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: November 10, 2017 09:31PM

Help please! This smoke belching is really embarrassing and it soils the reputation of the Corvair worldwide! :-)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Date: November 11, 2017 01:58AM

If it is Oil smoke for sure, it pretty much has to be coming from the turbo, right?
The 1965 Corvair Shop manual section on the turbo says that a 50,000 service is needed, then describes all the fun of removing the turbo-charger and taking it apart to check clearances and clean parts! thumbs up
Read Section on Engine Fuel starting at 6M-17.
Might be a good move to get a rebuilt turbo and swap it so you can continue to enjoy driving your "new" car, eh?
Then you can rebuild smoky and have a spare for your next 50,000 mile service. smoking smiley


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: November 11, 2017 05:31AM

It's probably not the problem but there is the propensity of turbo head valve guides to wear out and then no intake seals.
About 5 years ago a fellow had a 63 with the intermittent cloud of smoke on start-up. I rebuilt his turbo and haven't heard from him again except when he had a broken clutch cable and I couldn't work him into my schedule.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: November 12, 2017 12:08PM

Well face it. Corvair cylinders tend to warp, especially the overbored ones. they may be round when reaching temperatuire but as they cool they often take on a warp that will cause oil smoke for several minutes until they again assume the round condition. Remember, Chevrolet never supported overbores. they had replacement cylinder assys.

Bob Helt

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: November 12, 2017 12:26PM

It isn't an uncommon event to see a quick cloud of smoke upon startup. Since valves/pistons are laying flat oil isn't going to drain downward. In my mind it has nothing to do with a 'no boost' situation. I have seen carbbed cars do the same thing on occasion.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4 1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: November 13, 2017 07:23AM

This happens about every 20th start. The engine smokes profusely and immediately, and clears within 10 or so seconds.

Engine runs and boosts fine - no issues.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 13, 2017 07:28AM

Are you parked on a hill or slant when this happens?

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: November 13, 2017 07:34AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you parked on a hill or slant when this
> happens?


No.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Date: November 13, 2017 10:49AM

When was the turbo & carburetor last removed and rebuilt?


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Smoke Screen on Startup
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: November 13, 2017 11:15AM

1966-Corsa-GT-180 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When was the turbo & carburetor last removed and
> rebuilt?


Per PO, 20 years and 15-20k ago. Turbo supposedly done by a reputable diesel turbo repair shop. Of course, what do they know about carbon compressor seals?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: November 13, 2017 03:03PM

Long ago my 87 Mazda B2000 used to do the exact thing. I was told it was carboned up piston rings that sometimes were stuck in the grooves until the pistons got warm (20 seconds or so). It never smoked like that when the engine was warm but once a week or so it did heavily from a cold start. It looked like I was spraying for mosquitoes.

I cleaned the grooves, re-ringed, flex honed the bores and it never did it again and the truck now has an extra 100K on it.


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 4dr 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4dr EJ20T w/5-speed
66 500 4dr 110 3-speed Display Vehicle




Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: November 13, 2017 07:29PM

Most engines of the last decade have very thin "low tension" piston rings that become stuck easily if the car doesn't receive frequent oil changes with quality oil. The low tension is to reduce friction, save HP, and reduce wear but that makes precision fit more important than ever for oil control.

Dan Brizendine,
'64 8door Greenbrier 140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Date: November 14, 2017 01:28PM

Listen to Steve - He's right on the money. This is something that can happen occasionally with Corvairs. If you start doing major repair work to correct it you may be chasing your tail.

Lon Wall
www.corvairunderground.com
503-434-1648

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: November 14, 2017 02:06PM

corvairunderground Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to Steve - He's right on the money. This is
> something that can happen occasionally with
> Corvairs. If you start doing major repair work to
> correct it you may be chasing your tail.


I hear y'all. I've driven Corvairs for 39 years - 110, 140, 180 - and have never seen the amount of choking, acrid oil smoke this puppy puts out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 02:07PM by flat_six.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 14, 2017 02:26PM

I think I would try one of the many chemicals out there to free up stuck rings and internals. You may have one or two locked up and depending on where it stops in the rotation it may trap more oil. If it were the turbo, it would most likely be more regular.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: November 14, 2017 02:44PM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I would try one of the many chemicals out
> there to free up stuck rings and internals. You
> may have one or two locked up and depending on
> where it stops in the rotation it may trap more
> oil. If it were the turbo, it would most likely be
> more regular.


My wishful mind would have it be the turbo carbon or even turbine seal. But I'm afraid you might be right. The smoke is immediate upon start, clears quickly, and is intermittent. My experience with turbo seals is that they would smoke under high vacuum, more so after the oil warmed up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2017 02:45PM by flat_six.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 14, 2017 02:49PM

The stuck rings may be what my 66's problem was....after first boost it stopped... the cylinder Pressure may have unstuck the rings!!!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: OCCASIONAL Smoke Screen on Startup?
Posted by: jmaechtlen ()
Date: November 16, 2017 05:44PM

Well - the 'every 10 or 20 times' is what makes it harder to figure out. I guess running some de-carboner down it might not hurt. Given the turbo layout, I'd be tempted to pull all the plugs, pour a bunch of the stuff down each plug. and then leave the plugs out, after soaking a while, crank it through with rags over the heads to catch the gunk squirted out.
Might it relate to how the car was driven before it is parked and then smokes? Or the temperature?
(just grasping at straws, here)

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.