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I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 05, 2017 04:45PM

Over a month ago now my generator went out on my wagon. As I prefer to keep stock I set to fixing it with new brushes new bearing and a new bushing. I also re cut the badly worn and burned commutator on my lathe and reassembled it after a good clean. I tried to motor it to test that everything was back working again. It shook horribly and I think that it had a bad sector in the armature. At this point I ordered new field coils and a new armature as well as new terminal posts. I finally got every thing back together tonight and it fired up and is charging!!!

So as I was checking that everything was good that I had apart it was getting darker and darker. I blipped the throttle and at 1500-2000 RPM there is a light show in end of the generator. I do not think that this was this way before? I thought that one of the brushes was not making good contact so I gave it a smack with my small dead blow thinking that it might jar the brush loose or let it seat in the brush holder better. It seemed to help for a second but the light show is still there. At idle it is fine and it seems to be putting out plenty of juice, the lights are nice and bright again.

One other side note, when I reassembled everything with the new armature the brush holders rubbed the shoulder that is left after turning the commutator to the correct size. I put it in my lathe and cut a 45deg angle on it and it was fine but it is still a lot closer than the OEM style. I wish I could see if it was arcing.

Any help before I pull it back off for the fifth time would be a big help. I know I could put an alternator on it but I have no plans to do so, I just want the original stuff to work again.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 05, 2017 04:50PM

That's a weird one other that brushes normally do that when worn..... or too little tension..

Sounds to me like your new brushes are too short?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 05, 2017 07:09PM

Matt, I think low spring tension might be it. The commutator looked like it had been very hot on the bad armature, maybe it was warm enough to kill the springs.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: November 05, 2017 07:17PM

Did you debur the commutator? That is a normal occurrence that with RPM the generator brushes will arc.

What you can do with the engine idling is use a small screwdriver and gently run it across the commutator and back. That removes any burs that might be on the commutator. See if that doesn't cure the arcing some. Be careful NOT to touch anything else with the screwdriver while you are touching the commutator.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: November 05, 2017 07:19PM

May be a bit overkill but I recall a brush tension spec. listed in the service manual using a small pull scale.

'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: caroseiii ()
Date: November 05, 2017 07:52PM

These spark until seated against the curvature of the commutator. When the whirring sound goes away, so does the major sparking. There is always some sparking. You probably never noticed.

Crawford

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 05, 2017 07:53PM

Should I give it a nice long idle or should I take it for a real drive?

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 05, 2017 08:04PM

Drive it!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: November 06, 2017 04:43AM

Actually you need to clean the commutator first like I mentioned. If the arcing continues to long you can actually burn the commutator and pit it,

It takes nothing to run the srewdriver tip across the commutator while it is running.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 06, 2017 04:17PM

Ken, I did the screwdriver trick witch is a bit tight on the wagon but went well. I took it out on a neighborhood cruse and it ran well and behaved as normal. At this point I got brave and drove a few miles down the road to pick up my youngest from tutoring. I was about twenty minutes early so I pulled into the shade and took a nap. When I woke up and tried to start it just cranked and cranked. I got out to see if any thing looked out of place the only thing I found was a supper hot generator. I think that it was so hot it vapor locked the fuel system as the inlet and drivers side carb line run right next to the generator it had to cool for over an hour and then it started and I drove it home like normal. The generator was a way hot again after the short drive. Once it cools off tonight I will restart and see if the light show is still going on.

Does it make sense that it would run hot as the brushes seat? Voltage output seems great and other than the heat it is working well. Does it need a longer high speed trip to really get them set?

Thanks again for all the help

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 06, 2017 05:07PM

It's got to be overcharging!!

Does you cigar lighter socket work? Get one of the digital VM's that plug into it.... watch while driving...


Or if you have a DVM... and an old Lighter socket MALE plugin ... connect the DVM to it..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 06, 2017 05:42PM

I have a DVM can I just check the large rate at the battery?

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: November 06, 2017 05:50PM

Yes you can. But you need to check the voltage at around 1500-2000 RPM NOT idle.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: November 07, 2017 04:34PM

If it's super hot after sitting 20 minutes doesn't that indicate the regulator points are stuck?

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: November 07, 2017 06:01PM

If it gets hotter as it sits, I agree with Joel.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 07, 2017 07:41PM

It cools once it’s off. The regulator is new, I know that is no guarantee it working correctly.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 07, 2017 07:49PM

Sam, what voltage did you see when you rev'd the engine above 2,000rpm?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 08, 2017 12:48PM

I just checked it and it is over charging. 17.9v at idle and well over 20v at 1000-1500. I am going to inspect my regulator, it is an NOS unit I installed during my trouble shooting. I have my original that tested fine.

Is there any way to rebuild the generator incorrectly? Like if I got the field and armature posts flipped (I am 99% sure it is correct), or if I just had the two wires flipped. I am just hoping I do not need to pull the generator again.

Thanks again for all the good help.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: November 09, 2017 04:26AM

Take the cover off the regulator and adjust the voltage! Get the book out and identify which coil is the voltage regulator and you either have a screw/knob adjustment or you bend a tang to change the spring pressure.

Don't second guess yourself, fix the problem.

There are 2 sizes of wires that connect to the generator. The small one is the field and the larger one is the armature.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: I Need Some Generator Help On My Wagon
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: November 09, 2017 10:03AM

Ken, I don't think it is my regulator, I pulled the field wire off of the generator and it is still charging like crazy. Looks like I have a short somewhere, so off it comes again. I am just hoping that I can fix it and that I have not damaged any of the new parts.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon
1964 Spyder coupe


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