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140 to 180
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: November 01, 2017 02:26PM

I just finished my Corsa 140 resto 3 years ago, and a 67 GTO since. Now winter is coming and am considering transitioning my 140 Corsa to a 180 (the 140 is not original to the car anyway).

I've been gathering parts here and there, and have seen commentary on various B flow and F flow parts. Since I don't yet have a complete turbo unit I'm guessing I'll have to piece meal it.

So, I've heard of two possible combos if I can't put together a compete F flow turbo.

1) Use an F flow exhaust side and a B flow compressor
2) Use a B flow exhaust side and an F flow compressor

Which would be better, 1) 2) or a full F flow unit if I can find one? I had seen somewhere that option 1) is even better than a full F flow unit?

Would also like to put 140 exhaust stacks in my turbo heads, and use a weber 40 or 45 DCOE for a carb and fab it to the factory air cleaner somehow.

Also, if I'm rebuilding the heads, any suggestions on massaging to do? And cam, I heard OttO TB20?

At the same time I'm thinking of going 3:27 to 3:55 gear.

OK, let he have it!

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 01, 2017 02:42PM

Factory turbo heads can be a problem when pushed. Think about keeping the 140 heads and mill .070" off the valve side half of the piston. This Will get the compression down to turbo levels.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 01, 2017 02:46PM

Welcome to the CCF! Tell us where you are located!

Since your car is not an original.... turbo your 140 with a MODERN TURBO and a Wastegate... Makes the car much more exciting and pleasure to drive.


Turbo's like load to make boost.... stay with the 3.27's





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: thewolfe ()
Date: November 01, 2017 03:32PM

Option two is the way to go. It will get you the fastest spool and most boost. You don't want f flow exhaust with b compressor..that should not even be an option. If you do consider a modern turbo, it will need to have a carbon seal which I don't know of any modern turbos that use carbon seals on the intake. They are only necessary if you are sticking with the stock style draw through system where the carb is on the intake side of the turbo. If you are going efi or blow through carb then yes, use any turbo you want.

As for heads, you will want to replace the valve seats with deep seats if they haven't been replaced already. Compression is too high on 140 heads so some material will need to be removed. Some sort of turbo oil return needs to be fashioned on the passenger head or valve cover. I would also take advantage of the larger 140 exhaust logs and build a crossover pipe with larger tubing(with mandrel bends)than a stock one if you plan on using a weber or other, larger than stock carb.

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 01, 2017 04:17PM

If you are not going for a stock look/function consider more modern turbos.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: November 01, 2017 08:19PM

Are those fancy PEX cylinder holders? They look better than my EMT versions.thumbs up

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: November 02, 2017 05:31AM

Actually I've been a member for a long time, before I restored my Corsa. Then I spent 3 years on my GTO while enjoying the Corvair, and totally forgot my user name and password so I made a new. So now I'm back in. Gary, Waynesville, OH.

So much information here much appreciated, forgot how helpful everyone was.

As far as a modern turbo, I'm not a fabricator myself, so unless there's something ready to bolt on.,...

Also, about using 140 heads for a turbo, from what I've read my understanding is that wasn't really a good idea even if you got the compression down due to flow characteristics. My plan was to use 140 exh stacks in turbo heads with new seats and possibly a larger exhaust valve.

But B flow exhaust and F compressor is helpful. I can piece that together easier than the opposite.

And as far as 3:27, I don't know. The car currently has nothing at the bottom, probably because it's overcammed. It has a 280 cam and originally had headers but I didn't like them, so I took them off. I also have 15" wheels and need to go back and see if my overall wheel diameter is larger than what was factory.

Good start though, very helpful.....

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 02, 2017 06:05AM

It seems 140 heads and logs were a no-no up until a few years ago. Recently that thinking has changed. There are a bunch of guys here now running 140 heads very successfully. I hope they will chime in. I am running 110 heads at 9:1 with a 304 cam. I get up to 11 psi of boost and run water/meth. I know I could get more total HP running lower static and more boost. By running the higher CR and stock boost I get very quick throttle response in 1st and 2nd gear. In short its fun to drive and still used the simple YH setup to limit boost.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: November 02, 2017 06:12AM

If you are good with tuning and have alcohol/methanol injection you can make the higher compression work. I have done it. A programmable ignition such as an MSD 6AL 2 box really makes it easier and eliminates the mechanical advance and erratic boost retards. It gives you full control of advance, boost retard and adds part throttle advance that stock stock set ups lack and makes it all seamless. There are other carburetor set ups that can be used which are better than the Weber IMHO. Just make sure you get a waste gate to control the boost.

Lee J



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2017 06:13AM by gnvair.

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: November 02, 2017 09:41AM

If it's for fun, why not go EFI using the 140 heads. They will flow air better and can give you a lot more HP for the bucks. You can mill the pistons if your concerned about CR. Or just use a little less boost and have fun until she blows!

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: November 02, 2017 09:52AM

Wow, if I could use my 140 heads that would save a lot, they were completely overhauled with new seats et al when I did the car.

I once had this thought if I used my 140 heads for a turbo I'd get 2 of the chrome crossovers, bridge them and then rechrome. Thought it would look cool, not sure about effectiveness.

As far as draining the oil back to the head, machine the hole in the head and used the steel sleeve? Anybody go thru the top of the valve cover (probably not a good idea...).

MSD 6AL, yes, put one on another GTO I had (8AL). As I recall I needed a factory tach adapter as well....

Feel like I should start a whole new thread. The Harlan Sharp rollers, can use on a 140 head? I thought I remembered something about 140's having different valve angles between exh and intake and maybe they didn't work right? I have a thing about roller rockers, put them on everything I redo,....

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: thewolfe ()
Date: November 02, 2017 10:16AM

Machining a hole and inserting a tube would be the more elegant solution. I'm running 95hp heads with the oil drain in the valve cover with no issues. I have otto covers, drilled and tapped with a brass 45 hose barb. Pointed toward the hole in the sheet metal for the stock return and just a piece of high temp oil hose between that and the turbo drain. Either 3/8" or 1/2" i.d. hose, can't remember off the top of my head. In this case bigger is better.

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: goatsnvairs ()
Date: November 02, 2017 10:23AM

Interesting, guess I'll get n idea what the machining would cost to insert the sleeve, goo to know VC is an option, although probably not enough side meat on the stock ones.... Yes, I recall the turbo drain needs to be 3x the feed or something like that, otherwise oil has the potential to build pressure in the turbo and show itself as blue smoke in the exhaust. It's all coming back to me....

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 02, 2017 10:46AM

And if doing a Modern system.... move the turbo out of the engine compartment!

Racers have put it over the transaxle...but you want a heater? ggg

Right rear of engine compartment works for Oil Coolers and some have put AC condensers there.. build a box that is open on the bottom...turbo can still be high enough to drain into lower case..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 02, 2017 10:46AM

I cut off a piece of an old return pipe in the late 70s. I brazed it into the valve cover, lots of years, no issues other than its one more step to pull the cover. I did elongate the hole in the upper sheet metal to avoid a hard bend of the hose.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: 140 to 180
Posted by: Leon ()
Date: November 04, 2017 03:41PM

I've been running my stock compression 140 with a E-flow turbo and a four barrel carburetor at 10psi for years, ZERO issues with the engine, water/meth injection is a must.

My oil return is in the valve cover as well, does just fine.

Star NC
1965 Monza Coupe, turbocharged 140/4spd, Carter AFB 4bbl, E-flow Crown turbo, water/meth injection, driver
1965 Corsa Coupe, 140/4spd, future project
1966 Monza Coupe, 110/4spd parts car
1966 Monza 'vert, 95/PG parts car
1985 Dodge W350 4dr turbocharged 440/4spd

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