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Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: RediRadMatt ()
Date: October 26, 2017 08:04AM

Hi, folks:

My wife and I are kicking around the idea of (finally) getting a Corvair (next Summer at the earliest).

I like the '65+ body style and the later ones at that.

Our search criteria:
- a roadworthy '67-'69 Convertible that can be driven home from anywhere to Wisconsin.
- an automatic transmission and power steering (?)
- base engine OK (simpler is better)
- non-original engine or trans is OK
- worn interior and/or top OK
- little to no rust - worn out paint OK
- $5000 or less

...given the option wishes and condition allowances and the target selling price limit, is this realistic?

If not, please advise.

Matt Planning
RediRad Inventor

By the way - We are SUPER excited to announce an all-new RediRad website - located at [redirad.com]

...gotta getta RediRad!

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: October 26, 2017 08:16AM

Your goal seems realistic. I will say the cost to refurbish the interior and top puts your total way over the cost of purchasing a car with those items already in good condition. Note that no Corvair had power steering and with normal tires it's not needed.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: rowin4 ()
Date: October 26, 2017 08:22AM

Unless your a body man or have close ties to a body shop you might want to check out how much a paint job cost nowadays. Corvairs did not come with power steering. All convertibles are susceptible to rust especially if the top is in bad condition.The floorpans might be good or replaced but make sure you look under the back seat ,that's were the water accumulates in convertibles.There are no replacement panels for this area except from another car.

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: October 26, 2017 09:13AM

Welcome to CCF. Looking at my CORSA roster shows a lot of members in the state of Wisc. There are 4 clubs shown in your state too. Tell us what city and either I or someone else can see if anyone is near you. Next join CORSA and hopefully your local club. The club members know where the good cars are and will help you examine something before you buy.

Since I am old I am also cynical: NEVER buy from ebay without an inspection by someone.

Good luck in your pursuit.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 26, 2017 11:06AM

Why not 65-69.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: coleslaw31 ()
Date: October 26, 2017 11:24AM

Safety baby, 68 was when they had it figured out! (I maybe a little biased)

South Carolina Upstate



68 Monza convertible 140 4spd A/C (coming soon)
66 Corsa coupe 140 4spd

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: glivorsi ()
Date: October 26, 2017 01:55PM

Keep in mind that a top and back window replacement costs anywhere from $1100 to $1400 for parts and labor, which is a good percentage of your purchase price.

For 5k you should be able to get a decent low-optioned driver. All convertibles were Monzas for those years.

Greg in Wildwood, MO (part of the St. Louis urban sprawl)

1965 Monza Vert 110PG, Crocus Yellow with black interior and top

2014 Honda Accord V6 (DD)
2017 Honda Pilot (wifemobile)
2012 Chevy Sonic 1.8L (kid's car)
1997 Honda CBR1100XX
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 (no longer own)

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: October 26, 2017 02:19PM

While there's nothing wrong with the '65-6 years, I favor the '67, simply because of the styling of the interior and the host of options that were available. The '68-9 years were also good, but for other reasons, like coleslaw said. Every year has its pluses and minuses, comparing one with the others.

But it all depends on your own tastes, wants, and needs. Like the difference between the '65-6 bench/buckets and the '67-9 Astro buckets. It all depends on whether your bucket fits which bucket.eye popping smiley

-Mark

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: Mel ()
Date: October 26, 2017 02:32PM

If you get a car that needs paint..... beware ...a "good quality " body & paint job will likely cost you $10K ,IF you can find a shop that will do it sad smiley Better to find one with good paint on it smiling smiley but I doubt $5K would buy such a car sad smiley

Orangeville, Ontario. CANADA

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: October 26, 2017 02:37PM

65-66 are the easiest to find year-correct replacement parts. In 67, 68 and 69 little things became more unique like seats, door hinges, interior padding, smog engines, etc. I also prefer the 65-66 years because in Arizona they are excluded from emissions testing without having to get classic vehicle insurance to be granted an exception.

When it comes to finding correct restoration parts (if that is a concern), also consider how fast the production numbers dropped after 65. Some people like the rarity of the last few years.

1965 237K Corvairs made
1966 103K
1967 27K
1968 16K
1969 6K

Happy Hunting!


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 110 Convertible
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 26, 2017 03:43PM

65 has more spot welds, weren't sure how many were needed. Then GM started looking for places to reduce the numbers.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: curt ()
Date: October 26, 2017 03:52PM

I Like them all. I have a hardtop 1969, 95 hp and GP. Wonderful car, Soft top sounds super. Good luck on the purchase.

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: irvan ()
Date: October 26, 2017 04:13PM

Isn't it great that you can look for, expect to find, and buy a 1960s Chevy convertible in the 5k price range?

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: Frogfinder ()
Date: October 26, 2017 05:00PM

Some of the best deals on rag tops are in JAN-MARCH. Spending a little more on a solid rust free car with good paint, nice top,good rubber seals and interior puts you way ahead of the game. A nice one is on e-bay now #162470140469 Try to buy one like this before a dealer gets ahold of it.

jeff

66 Corsa 140 4 spd
Houston, Tx



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2017 05:05PM by Frogfinder.

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: j3m ()
Date: October 26, 2017 11:45PM

Even though you are seeking a 1967 vert, you should not rule out RUST FREE 1966 or 1965 convertibles.

Though you do have the Advantage of the DUAL CIRCUIT MASTER BRAKE CYLINDER on the 1967 thru 1969 ( highly desirable over the old single circuit)

As you probably know the DUAL CIRCUIT system was introduced by AMERICAN MOTORS on 1962 cars,........ROLLS-ROYCE and CADILLAC adopted American Motors' practice also beginning in 1962!!!
This innovation was so game changing in IMPROVEMENT to MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY that the U.S. Federal Goverment REQUIRED that all 1967 cars be equipped with the DUAL CIRCUIT MASTER CYLINDER!!!

Another hugely important US Federal Goverment mandate was with respect to STEERING COLUMN DESIGN, which studies had shown in some older vehicles to act like spears to the driver's torso in a moderately violent front end colision at speed. Manufacturers had realized there was a problem area with the steering column design as early as the 1930's but realized that providing adequate, durable and safe steering was paramount but how to solve it was another matter.
For years, deeply dished wheels and simple pads were the only solutions that were offered up. Heck, after collapseable steering columns had been in use by one or more manufacturers, and proven to be the best solution yet, to the point that it appeared that they would be mandated, which they were, one manufacturer really dragged their feet as other major manufacturers jumped on board with collapseable steering columns. FORD for 1967 models tried to convince the public that its pretty vinyl stitched cover, foam donut ring was good enough protection instead of having collapseable columns, which others in the industry were adopting at the time. They saw the cost savings of using a donut pad on the center of the steering wheel over quality engineering. 1968 FORDS do have collapseable columns BECAUSE they were FEDERALLY MANDATED to improve automobile safety. That is why a 1968 MUSTANG is so much better than a 1967 MUSTANG even though they are almost identical.....'67 has fake side vent and possibly a better looking front grille area....but the '67 & '68 stangs are nearly the same except the '67 will spear the driver's torso in a mildly violent front impact and '68 offers better chance of survival. Hey, lets not talk about FORD's drop in gas tanks and their decision not to install a metal barrier (firewall) between the TRUNK/BOOT and the rear of the backseat area......so when HARD impact at high speed into rear end of '64-'70 Mustangs, the gas tank could rupture spraying gasoline into the passenger area........ignited gasoline spray (firey spray) and the odds of passengers being fatally burned increase exponentially. That is definitely an area of concern if you own a classic '64-'70 Stang, you may wish to install an aftermarket sheet metal firewall that the various vendors have been selling for 30+ years. ABC NEWS magazine 20/20 did a feature story on this severe issue about 25 years ago.
I'm simply highlighting that though the CORVAIR is synonymous with UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED in the eyes of the general public at large, a great many other vintage and period era automobiles are Not Immune from serious safety deficiencies! There Is A SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT IN SEEKING LATER MODELS WHICH OFFER BOTH THE Collapseable Steering Column and The DUAL CIRCUIT BRAKE SYSTEM.
So, in my opinion, YES, absolutely if you can find a 1967 thru 1969 CORVAIR CONVERTIBLE that is RELATIVELY CLEAN (minimal rust) that is a worthy goal.
BE PREPARED TO HUNT FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, PRODUCTION NUMBERS were tiny COMPARED TO 1965 model year production.
You could MACGYVER an "UPGRADE" for a rust free 1965 or 1966 that would add a COLLASPSEABLE TYPE STEERING COLUMN and a DUAL CIRCUIT BRAKE SYSTEM.
Adding the DUAL CIRCUIT BRAKE SYSTEM is not difficult, and definitely should be a priority if you intend to drive the car regularly on roads where the speed limit exceeds 40 mph.

I WILL FURTHER SUGGEST THAT YOU SERIOUSLY CONSIDER Brown Electronic Fuel Injection and dis (distributorless ignition) ---CLARKS CORVAIR parts sells this kit for less than $2000. It makes the CORVAIR totally reliable, where you can drive it anywhere and at anytime, in any weather or altitude with no worries at all. Incredibly simple, yet superbly engineered, and proven to function better than any factory or aftermarket carburetion solution. Computer controlled is light years better................One small step for TED, one giant leap forward for Corvair reliability/driveability!

I would strongly urge you to consider adopting DONOR CAR front seats from an early 2000's Chrysler convertible that has the 3 point shoulder belt integrated into the seat design.
ALL 1960's and very early 1970's bucket seats that were standard equipment in Detroit automobiles are very weak where the seatbacks tend to give way in an accident potentially causing severe injury to the occupant..........not all are as bad as others, but you can guess that sixties era Detroit engineering likely didn't give a hoot to such things until multiple crash studies showed about a decades' worth of poor seat designs from multiple automakers. Detroit cars were not the only ones with badly designed seating. What cars had "acceptable seats" in 1972 versus "poorly designed seats" is difficult to determine as very few would probably be considered "acceptable" based on crash testing data, etc of that era. I don't think that domestic economy cars/ and sport coupes tackled this issue fully until sometime well into the eighties. That is not to say that some US cars had decent seats in the seventies but some models probably did not.
NOW WHEN YOUR'RE CONSIDERING A VEHICLE DESIGNED IN THE FIFTIES, THAT PIONEERED the new bucket seat in the very early sixties, and obviously the seat design did not change much between 1962 and 1968.........'69 got headrests though but seat structure likely wasn't much different. The CORVAIR bucket seats may be stronger than most other bucket and bench seats of that era, but be forewarned that automobile seating of that era typically has a greater likelihood of the seat back folding during a severe crash. That factor and the low back buckets without any headrestraints and the lap belt ONLY seatbelt are a ANTIQUE and outdated solution. The two belt , shoulder and lap solution of the very late sixties is difficult to adjust and is uncomfortable as movement is hindered.
Much later 3 point INERTIA REEL retractable seat belts are preferrable.
THE PROBLEM WITH RESPECT TO THE LATE MODEL CORVAIR CONVETIBLE IS THAT THERE IS NO SUITABLE ROOF MOUNTING POINT TO INSTALL 3 point retractable Inertia Reel Seat BELTS. IT CAN EASILY BE DONE IN THE COUPE or 4-DOOR. Yes, nearly a thousand different donor car seats (think 1987 thru early 2000's) will fit nicely into the COUPE or 4-DOOR. They would fit the Vert too BUT lack of a place to physically mount your 3 point seat belt is a huge problem. Why just go with only a LAP BELT? That is no better than 1962 except you might have a seat that offers better safety in a crash(won't fold..).
Assuming you were to use thick heavy steel plate bracing to beef up the floor structure mounting area to mount the Chrysler convertible seats for example, if you did a reasonably good MacGyvering of building structure and strength to the floor area mounting points, my guess is your odds would be much better for minimal injury or no injury in an accident versus the potential severe spinal or neck injury or even fatal injury with the original factory seat in a significant to severe crash.
The odds are very slim that you'll ever be in a crash in your vintage Corvair because classic car people tend to be aware of such potential and drive carefully and tend to drive very few miles annually in their classic cars.
There is no accounting for the OTHER GUY or GAL.............remember the public service ad campaign of the late sixties ...."WATCH OUT FOR THE OTHER GUY", well hey back in 1968, there was no cell phone distraction, texting, no buetooth, no 50 watt per channel car stereos, nothing approaching 10 watts and today every new car has a factory system capable of probably 100 watts per channel RMS or greater. That guy or gal in todays' SUV with six airbags is sometimes off in their own space....spaced out with the windows up, stereo blaring...maybe looking at the Navigation/GPS display.......texting at the same time......trusting that they will see and react in time, after all their vehicle is the most up to date, high tech in braking and collision avoidance..............BOOM.......you've been wiped out by the large charcoal gray 2016 SUV................think you don't need decent front seats and 3 point modern seat belts........you better think again!!
In my opinion that is better than having COLLAPSEABLE STEERING COLUMN or DUAL CIRCUIT BRAKES. Why? Steering Column impact (spearing you) would occur in a severe frontal crash. Depending on the angle of impact, the lack of an engine upfront provides something of an undesigned crumple zone..... YOU STILL NEED THE SEAT TO PROTECT YOU AND YOU GOTTA BE PROPERLY RESTRAINED FOR SAFETY.....
The single circuit "fruit jar" master cylinder IS UNSAFE WHEN THERE IS ANY LEAK OR OTHER LACK OF INTEGRITY WHERE FLUID ESCAPES.....otherwise if all is perfect at all times, there is no threat..................emphasis on PERFECT AT ALL TIMES!!
Both are desireable features and are the reason that they were federally mandated at different times during the late sixties.
In an old antique car with inadequate seats that can fold up or have the seat back collapse in even a moderate crash, you will be INJURED if that does occur.
There is a probability that you could be paralyzed or even die in such an accident that if the automobile was equipped with better stronger seats with proper head restraints and modern 3 point seat belts, you'd suffer only mild injuries or no injury at all. Bruised and severely sore versus dead or paralyzed. There is a reason they don't make them like they used to.
Crumple zones, side impact beam protection in the door area, crash testing,,,,,hey they have learned a helluva lot in the 48 years since 1970.
Perhaps someone will know if there is any added side impact beam protection on any of the '68 or '69 Corvairs versus the '67 and earlier late models.
You probably didn't consider stuff like seating and 3 point seat belts and other things like Brown EFI / dis which will improve your Corvair experience.
You damn sure don't want the single speed windshield wipers. Maybe its acceptable since you only TRAILER your Corvair to shows or only drive it 368 miles per year, all during sunny clear days, or if you do drive but live in Phoenix or San Diego where as the old Albert Hammond hit song goes: 'IT NEVER RAINS... because just a little rain-x and you're fine if it does sprinkle.
1966 year model is where you've got the first decent STANDARD EQUIPMENT windshield wipers. If you've got a '65, you want the two speed wipers.
Again, this is a very simple area to upgrade.
You could probably easily modify even a 1960 to modern electric multi-speed wipers with delay and wash like a '78 celica had. Street rod suppliers have all the bits to modernize even the most ancient of vehicles. The Corvair had a better wiper system than most cars of that era, but there is still some room to improve them to at least late seventies era standards.
If you look for the best physical body late model convertible, RUST FREE, or as free of rust as you can, you'll be on the right path if you have a Game Plan to proceed and YOU ARE PATIENT IN YOUR SEARCH FOR THE DESIRED CAR. You will likely have to TRANSPORT said acquired vehicle from a good distance away.
Be certain to have the Corvair braintrust help you evaluate said vehicle before you purchase it. For these purposes: Corvair braintrust = very knowledgeable and trusted Corvair club people.
Trust your own instincts and do your Corvair in the way you wish to do it!
You can't please everyone, so you gotta please yourself (or at least your wife!).
LEARN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, BEFORE Beginning your search so that you are more capable of determining a good buy from a goodbye!
Have fun! Don't let it stress you out.
Every 50+ year old classic car is gonna be unique in its "issues".
As you'd imagine, no ten year old, nice, USED CAR is free of minor issues, so you can't reasonably expect something 50+ years old to be "perfect".
RUST is the most difficult and costliest problem!
The Corvair convertible can withstand a huge amount of rust in certain areas and still be structurally strong enough to DRIVE but such a vehicle will not be presentable or decent enough to PAINT or restore. Four quarts of POR-15, eighteen pounds of BONDO and a 1/2 price $499 Maaco Paint job, or RUSTOLEUM sprayed from a Harbor Freight paint sprayer in your backyard, will make it "pretty" from 15 feet away........liberal application of POR-15 to the severly rusted areas will solidfy the structure somewhat and make it possible for the backyard paint job or Maaco job to last at least two years before you'd need to do the same thing.
DO NOT BUY A RUSTED "Driver" CORVAIR IF YOU DESIRE TO HAVE A VERY NICE PRESENTABLE CAR! No amount of money can bring a slightly to moderately rusty Corvair to the quality of a RUST FREE golden-west area Corvair. Okay, you could spend sixty grand to rehab a rusty Corvair to the level of an $8600 rust free Corvair in Scottsdale Arizona.
The good news is there are a lot of Corvair Convertibles out there. Most have owners have or are approaching the age in which the kids are taking away the keys because at 80+, old Stan isn't: (select one) physically able to drive, is no longer mentally sharp enough to drive, has vision problems, requires medication which impairs his ability to concentrate and focus....
Just like homes that elderly homeowners can no longer manage living there, so too will these Convertibles appear in the marketplace within the not too distant future. Their families have their own vehicles and probably don't share the same affection for Grandpa Stan's Corvair. With so much to dispose of after Gran PaPa Stan passes, the family/estate donates/sells his old cars/boats etc.
Just like you'd expect to need to renovate/update Stan's former home that he lived in from 1972 until his death in December 2017, so too will you expect that Stan's car collection would need attention too, considering Stan who lived to age 89 had been in a nursing home since June 2014 and had ceased driving in Nov 2012, though the family tried to stop Stan from driving in Dec 2011. Its a familiar story that plays out over and over in the Corvair community and other classic car circles which have a large number of octogenarians.

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: Mel ()
Date: October 27, 2017 05:19AM

Ahhhhhheye popping smiley X2 smiling smiley

Orangeville, Ontario. CANADA

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: October 27, 2017 05:49AM

J3m who the hell is going to read that??

Lee J

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: October 27, 2017 06:10AM

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> J3m who the hell is going to read that??

People who have trouble falling asleep. grinning smiley


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 110 Convertible
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: October 27, 2017 07:11AM

azdave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gnvair Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > J3m who the hell is going to read that??
>
> People who have trouble falling asleep. grinning smiley


That made my morning! Thanks Dave! grinning smiley

Lee J

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Re: Advice sought: '67-'69 Convertibles
Posted by: coleslaw31 ()
Date: October 27, 2017 08:00AM

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> J3m who the hell is going to read that??


I got a paragraph in

South Carolina Upstate



68 Monza convertible 140 4spd A/C (coming soon)
66 Corsa coupe 140 4spd

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