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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: Layton Curtis ()
Date: October 24, 2017 03:54PM

To each his own, but I have had that happen. I would take some good used standard studs and torque them to 30 lb and if they held I would use them. If it aint broke don't fix it. They won't fail once you have them assembled.

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: October 24, 2017 04:45PM

I would say that might be a blessing in disguise. If his skin is so thin he can't stand to have his judgement or methods questioned, it was time to find a new builder anyhow. It's tough when some come to grips with not being the smartest guy in the room.

'64 Monza Coupe 140 4 speed
'61 700 Lakewood 95 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 24, 2017 05:52PM

If you read this post to the end you can see how I solved this problem, there are other ways, but pulling studs is the last way I would do it. The engine is long time back together and running fine.


[corvaircenter.com]

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: corvairdoug ()
Date: October 24, 2017 06:28PM

I had a machine shop do that to a 140 I had. I bought a bunch of oversize studs, then couldn't get any of them to go in far enough. Cut my losses, used a different 140 block I was lucky enough to have.

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: October 24, 2017 08:14PM

At this moment, I'm just bummed about my relationship with my mechanic. I've known him for as long as he's been there. He's always worked on my cars, saved my butt many a time. And it's not like I question his competency, heck, he builds 1500hp monster truck pull engines all the time (his son's into that major). So when he used the line, "we can still be friends" I felt like a suitor when his sweetheart tells him that, if you know what I mean. He said that he didn't like what some of the (to put it politely) horse's-rears-friends of mine on here had to say. I'm just going to have to explain things to him, and hope I can smooth things over with him.

But still, at the moment, I'm going to have to plan on how to get an engine built for my car. But then too, the financial part of the equation is getting real dicey, and it's still a long way to tax refund time. The thought of using a borrowed engine has already popped up. But a used engine in a new car? Tough to think about. Still maybe, cash flow considered, this may be the hard way to a good thing, for the short term. I've already talked to another friend, who has built his own Corvair engine just recently, about it. He's an amateur mechanic, but maybe he'll help me out.

Life's becoming more like a soap opera every day.

-Mark

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 25, 2017 05:17AM

Some guys are like that. I had some head work done by a local machine shop. He was machinist and one of only a very few left in my area. He had not worked on any Vair stuff for many years. He didn't know you needed to true the valve cover surface to the gasket side first and screwed them up. With help from this group and especially Ken Hand he straighten them out on his dime. He was super embarrassed on thankful for the help from this group. Now he is a new friend.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: October 25, 2017 06:11AM

I can see why he might be upset, some of the replies could get at a guy.
I have studs come out all the time, especially the top ones that have been exposed to Minnesota winter. If there's no aluminum on them, I just reinstall with red Loctite. Hardly ever a problem although I'm uneasy if they go back in too easily.
I don't usually reuse top studs that have been corroded away if they come out. If they stay in place I don't usually worry about it since the threads that are actually doing something are okay unless of course someone is installing thicker gaskets to reduce the compression. I'm usually further down for more squish.
It sounded at first like he removed all the studs but now it sounds more like some of them just came out so I'm a little confused. There's a big difference.
Some guys with lots of other experience adapt to Corvair work just fine, others not so much. Us guys at our keyboard have no way of knowing.

My buddy Fran Schmit came up with a two man method for applying heat to the top nuts if you'd rather not have them come out. If you just apply torch heat to the top nuts when they're against the head all the heat just dissipates into the aluminum and doesn't do any good.
If one guy applies heat back and forth along the length of the stud with a propane torch, the stud gets longer and the nut comes away from the head. The other guy can then apply oxy-acetylene or propane heat to the nut and it comes off.
It works pretty slick but I hardly ever do it, mainly because I work alone.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: October 25, 2017 07:55AM

All,

Well, I smoothed things over with my mechanic. After reading everything that was posted and talking with him, I now have a better understanding of all that's going on with the job. Almost all the studs came out with the nuts so that's why the studs were out of the block. And he knows and has had experience handling such situations. As I said, he learned under the late owner of the business, who was a master Corvair mechanic. As I told him, I wouldn't be bringing my stuff to him if I didn't trust his expertise. Problem is, the more money I dump into this car, the more scared I get of something not being right and giving me grief later on, when I won't be able to afford to fix it. And expenses have reached a terrifying level. AND the body STILL isn't out of the body shop!

'Nuf said.

-Mark

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: October 25, 2017 08:23AM

I, like Jim and others here in the east (and you in Ohio) deal with stuck nuts all the time. Like Jim, if the stud comes out clean, put it back in with Loctite, and test like Craig says.

If the threads in the head nut area are OK and the others are missing, I think of them as studs with nut starter sections!

West coast people just don't know the fun we have building Corvair engines!grinning smiley

And like Craig and others say, do not buy oversized studs until the stock ones don't hold test. Then may as well Helicoil or Threadsert and use the stock ones anyway....thumbs up Note, to do this sometimes you need to chase the stud threads with a 3/8-16 die because they will not go all the way into the new standard thread insert. That will cause worry.... I'm sure others will chime in with their methods of inserts.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 25, 2017 08:23AM

When I took my engine apart I found 3 of the top left side studs had been replaced. I did the 40 ft lb test on all of them using pieces of PVC pipe and washers and they all tested good. Even with old/original studs a torque test would probably be a good idea. I can't imagine the horror of getting all the way to final assembly and having a stud pull out while torquing one of the heads.

If you do replace them make sure your mechanic is aware of how far the studs protrude into the case. They should be flush or under. If they are out into the case more than a little there can be interference with the crank, rod bolts actually I think.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Northern Colorado, USA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2017 08:25AM by Nickshu.

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: October 25, 2017 08:31AM

All the above being said and done just get a set of used upper studs. Maybe a couple of extra in case a couple are a little looser than wanted. Worst case would be to Heli-Coil 1-2 if needed with the LONG Heli-Coils.

The factory criteria can be fudged a little and as long as you have some resistance going in, at least the last 3-4 threads, you are good to go. I have also installed the main web studs a little deeper than factory and you can also do the same with the thru head studs and then just grind off the inside end for clearance. Yes, that sometimes helps those studs.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: October 25, 2017 09:07AM

Looks like you have it sorted out Mark. But it made me recall a local "Engineer" I helped out rebuilding his carburetors. He had a VW Bus with Corvair engine.
No comparison to your mechanic, but here's what happened to me.

He brings his carburetors over. I was to show him how to do the rebuilding process. Oh boyeye rolling smiley
Being an "engineer" as he kept telling me... he had completely disassembled he carb's. I mean completely! Idle circuit tubes pulled from the venture bodies. Choke and throttle body butterflies and brass screws removed. Everything that could be detached, pulled apart or forced into pieces from the 2 carb's he had thrown into one bucket. All mixed up! He had soaked everything for several days in apple vinegar.
Now we had this pile of parts to work with!!!hot smiley

I got the job done, but his "engineering" skills added hours to the process. yawning smiley

Again, glad you have things worked out.

Corventure Dave

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: October 26, 2017 09:25AM

Ken mentions this........

Worst case would be to Heli-Coil 1-2 if needed with the LONG Heli-Coils.

Let me add that the thread length of the stud is almost 1". You want to contact ALL of that thread, or as much as possible. So you should try to source a 7/8" long Hilicoil and if not available, get and install TWO 1/2" long helicoils and install them both in the same hole, end-to-end.

Bob Helt

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 26, 2017 11:03AM

Now that the studs are out, I would try a nut cracker on them. Once the nuts are get a high quality die and chase the threads. The studs are tough a may ruin a couple of dies. Even rusted studs often have decent threads right where they are needed. If they clean up then try to reinstall them and use a load test. If any of them pulled aluminum out with them, you are looking at helicoil or long time-serts.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Should I be worried? Block to head studs questionconfused smiley
Posted by: Layton Curtis ()
Date: October 26, 2017 04:31PM

Once the stud is out, put it in a vice and run the nut in the opposite direction, then chase the threads. After all that you can take the nut off with your fingers.

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