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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 23, 2017 05:41PM

Agreed

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 24, 2017 06:46AM

For those of you that like a video there are lots of them.



[www.youtube.com]



Now, if I have been reading this right all these years, the GM 65 shop manual states that the LOWER ball joint is built loose when NOT under load. The upper one is tight. Up to 1/16" or .060" movement is OK.

So maybe I have been reading this wrong or it written wrong. Or some mechanics don't believe in it.

Nick I don't have a 64 manual, but if you do, I would like to know what it states.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: WBrownIV ()
Date: October 24, 2017 10:01AM

Well it looks like I'll be on the hunt for another ball joint as well. Nick could you let me know when you have found one? I don't want to butt in front of the line smiling smiley

Bill Brown
Arnold, Mo. (Just south of St. Louis)

1965 Corsa Convertible
1965 Monza Coupe w/Factory A/C
Member
Corsa #32864
Show-Me Corvair Club

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Date: October 24, 2017 10:49AM

The 1965 Shop Manual Suspension 3-7, Service Operations: Spherical Joints
Complete procedure for checking first the upper joint, then the lower joint.






Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Date: October 24, 2017 11:16AM

Here is the info from the 1962-63 Supplement:




Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 24, 2017 11:19AM

That is the exact page I was referring to a few posts up. I wonder if the other year SM have the same info. For whatever reason GM decided to build the lowers loose and the top tight. They could have built the lowers as well. It seems there are other GM cars of the period built the same way. Maybe the lack of power steering, who knows. Back in the day, many inspection shops would call the customer in and show them the slop, then sold the new ball joints plus install. Many of the after market ones were junk and things got worse quickly. My Dad got taken once by this, then my uncle showed him the SM and proved it was garage fund raising BS.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: October 24, 2017 11:29AM

I will gladly purchase any nos lower joints that you don’t want.
Mike

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 24, 2017 05:19PM

Same here. Nick if the seller won't yours back sign me up. I think they are the way GM designed them to be. Don't need them now, but who knows. The old girl isn't getting any younger.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 24, 2017 06:38PM

Well dang. Just checked my 64,shop manual supplement and it says the same thing as above. They are supposed to be loose by up to 1/16". I guess I'll keep these!

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 24, 2017 06:44PM

Well, If I ever get to build up a spare suspension from one of the LMs I scrapped, I will now be aware of this accepted looseness.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Joe West ()
Date: October 26, 2017 02:30PM

Thanks for starting this thread Nick. I would have never guessed that the NOS lower ball joints would be intentionally loose. I wonder if they were designed this way to intentionally build some slack in the spindle assembly. The only thing that makes sense in my mind is that the looseness removes the potential of binding or excess stress in the ball joint spindle combination. Maybe it removes tolerance stack up ? I guess I need to break out the repair manual and see if anything makes sense WRT looseness in the lower ball joint.


1964 Spyder Convertible, Laurinburg North Carolina
Restoration Website: [www.corvairspyder.com]

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: October 26, 2017 02:46PM

I checked a couple of NOS lower control arms today, and all but one had a loose ball joint installed. Even the one that was tighter than the rest, wasn't that much tighter than the other 3. I also checked a half dozen of the "aftermarket" ball joints that I have, and all of those were tight.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: October 26, 2017 04:22PM

Not everything GM engineered for their cars over the years was ideal or perfect.
Stock push rod tubes are a good example.
Today no manufacturer that I can think of produces a vehicle that has loose ball joints or tie rods.

Lee J

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 26, 2017 04:33PM

Joe West Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for starting this thread Nick. I would have
> never guessed that the NOS lower ball joints would
> be intentionally loose. I wonder if they were
> designed this way to intentionally build some
> slack in the spindle assembly. The only thing that
> makes sense in my mind is that the looseness
> removes the potential of binding or excess stress
> in the ball joint spindle combination. Maybe it
> removes tolerance stack up ? I guess I need to
> break out the repair manual and see if anything
> makes sense WRT looseness in the lower ball joint.

Only thing I can think of is to make the Corvair's non-power assisted steering easier to turn.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Joe West ()
Date: October 26, 2017 05:12PM

Putting my engineering hat on, I must believe it was for a reason. Fact: the NOS upper ball joints I have are tight; they are as tight as the aftermarket lower ball joint I have. If Chevrolet engineers wanted, they could have produced a tight lower ball joint, but they didn’t. Not only did they not produce a tight lower ball joint, but they specified in the service manual that the lower ball joint will have play. This suggests to me that Chevrolet engineers had a reason to leave play in the lower ball joint; the question is, why?

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not everything GM engineered for their cars over
> the years was ideal or perfect.
> Stock push rod tubes are a good example.
> Today no manufacturer that I can think of produces
> a vehicle that has loose ball joints or tie rods.


1964 Spyder Convertible, Laurinburg North Carolina
Restoration Website: [www.corvairspyder.com]

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: October 26, 2017 06:42PM

I am in the process of replacing both lower ball joints on my 1964 Spyder Coupe, with aftermarket ball joints that are USA made about 50 years ago. If they fail prematurely, I will let you know, assuming that they will fail before I do... LOL... Junk

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: October 26, 2017 07:43PM

It's my understanding that the only reason ball joints are actually tight is a spring inside that takes up the vertical slop. When they have the spring they have zero play until they have enough wear to relieve the spring tension. The upper ball joints have nothing loading them up or down so they need the spring. The lowers are under constant weight of the car so they don't really need the spring. The main difference between spring and no spring would be the maximum wear measurement. After a little research it seems some also have tight nylon wear surface and no spring. Really nice ones have a threaded seat that allows the play to be adjustable.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Jim Stukenborg ()
Date: October 27, 2017 07:01AM

I retired from the Inland div of GM. We made ball joints among many other things. I'll try to run down the old ball joint engineers and see what I can find out. This may take a while. Jim

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 27, 2017 07:21AM

Jim Stukenborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I retired from the Inland div of GM. We made ball
> joints among many other things. I'll try to run
> down the old ball joint engineers and see what I
> can find out. This may take a while. Jim


Hey Jim that would be really interesting. Thanks!

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 27, 2017 08:48AM

I received a response back from Diverse Suspension Technologies about supporting the Corvair suspension joints. Below is what they said. If anyone wants to contact them asking to support the Vairs, it might be something that can come to some good.

Here is the link to the support desk.

[www.suspension.com]

thumbs up
Dean replied

Oct 25, 4:17pm



Hello ,

I see that you sent us a new product suggestion.

I am sorry we did not have what you were looking for, it appears of the brands we carry that part is not one that is offered yet. However, I will pass this information along and now that we have your contact information we will notify you in the event this part does become available.

DST is a small business and is not yet able to participate in sponsorships at this time.

Thank you for your suggestion and please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

P.S. We send this information to the factory to help motivate them to develop these products. That being said, if you have friends or family that also need this part made or another one that is not listed, please have them fill out the same form. With enough input from our customers the factory can make a better decision on what products to create next.



--
Dean
Customer Service Specialist
thumbs up

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently bought a set of ball joints for my 68
> Camaro. They are Moog products. None were loose.
> I could barely move the ball stud from one side
> of the arc to the other. Grease made it easier
> but there was no looseness.
>
> These came from Diverse Suspension Technologies
> (suspension.com). They don't have much for the
> Corvair.
>
> [www.suspension.com]
>
> ps: I sent a request to see if they would be
> interested in supporting our ours. I will let you
> know if I hear back from them.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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