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How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 22, 2017 07:32AM

After Joe's debacle with the broken repro ball joint I bought a pair of NOS ball joints on Ebay (same auction Joe bought from). When I received them they are pretty loose, which I would expect since they are dry with no grease. However it appears they have about 2mm of axial play, meaning when held in the up position I can pull the tapered part up and down about 2mm. There is no indication they have ever been used. Normal or not?

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: October 22, 2017 07:37AM

Production part. I have seen some that are tighter than others, but once you grease it, it should be fine. Take one off the car after a couple thousand miles, and it will have the same amount of play.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Date: October 22, 2017 07:59AM

Way back when, there used to be a ploy to sell new ball joints to customers by showing them that play in the ball joints on their car.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: October 22, 2017 08:03AM

A brand new part that has that much play loose is not going to get any better with mileage; they only get looser, not tighter. I gave away NOS GM ball joints for that reason.
OEM GM ball joints on these cars have never been known to last very.
I personally love the old Moog/TRW after market ball joints.
Rule of thumb for me is if you can't move the shaft by hand on a brand new joint then you have a good one!

Lee J

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 22, 2017 08:33AM

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A brand new part that has that much play loose is
> not going to get any better with mileage; they
> only get looser, not tighter. I gave away NOS GM
> ball joints for that reason.
> OEM GM ball joints on these cars have never been
> known to last very.
> I personally love the old Moog/TRW after market
> ball joints.
> Rule of thumb for me is if you can't move the
> shaft by hand on a brand new joint then you have a
> good one!

Can you find lower Moog/TRW ball joints? A quick google search shows only uppers out there. Who makes the reproduction lower ball joints that Clarks' sells?

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2017 08:34AM by Nickshu.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: October 22, 2017 08:49AM

That is normal on a NOS GM Ball Joint, once you grease it, the up and down play will be gone. The suspension is always pulling the ball upward in the socket.
The GM Joint is extremely strong,it will NOT break like the aftermarket ones. Ive had two severe front end crashes where the lower ball joint stud Bent and did not snap like others ive seen.
I have no reservations about running that joint in my V8 Racer. Mike



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2017 08:50AM by v8vair.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: WBrownIV ()
Date: October 22, 2017 02:53PM

Nick,
Thank you for posting this question! I too had purchased NOS ball joints and one of the lowers is the same as yours! I can move it up and down slightly and can turn the stud easily with my fingers. Heck it even rattles a bit if I shake the whole thing. The other joint is tight and you can barely move the stud at all. I really don't want to buy another oneeye rolling smiley

Bill

Bill Brown
Arnold, Mo. (Just south of St. Louis)

1965 Corsa Convertible
1965 Monza Coupe w/Factory A/C
Member
Corsa #32864
Show-Me Corvair Club

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 22, 2017 03:19PM

WBrownIV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nick,
> Thank you for posting this question! I too had
> purchased NOS ball joints and one of the lowers is
> the same as yours! I can move it up and down
> slightly and can turn the stud easily with my
> fingers. Heck it even rattles a bit if I shake the
> whole thing. The other joint is tight and you can
> barely move the stud at all. I really don't want
> to buy another oneeye rolling smiley
>
> Bill

Both of the ones I have flop around like that. I guess we have to trade a solid front end feel for safety of not snapping off.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Joe West ()
Date: October 22, 2017 04:39PM

Nick,

As soon as the removal tool gets here, I will be swapping my second lower balljoint out. I don’t mind being the guinea pig and seeing how it works before you go tearing yours apart.

Joe


1964 Spyder Convertible, Laurinburg North Carolina
Restoration Website: [www.corvairspyder.com]

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: October 22, 2017 06:51PM

I have seen many NOS lower ball joints and some have been tight and most have been loose like everyone is describing.

Now, if you want a loose feeling front end put the loose NOS lower ball joints in. With the loose GM lowers you will now have rut tracking and crack following. I can't you how many ball joints I have changed for that reason. Grease won't stop the looseness.

Personally I will not use a loose GM lower ball joint.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: bbakerga ()
Date: October 22, 2017 07:58PM

Nick, I think I would see about getting a refund from the eBay seller. I see TRW and Moog ball joints on eBay pretty frequently.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: rowin4 ()
Date: October 22, 2017 08:59PM

As stated above ,grease will not fix the loose ball joint once in the car. The grease will move to the bottom side and still be loose. The ones you have in the car now might be better. Spend a little more and get Moog. Do it right once and you'll at least feel safe.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: October 23, 2017 04:27AM

I recently bought a set of ball joints for my 68 Camaro. They are Moog products. None were loose. I could barely move the ball stud from one side of the arc to the other. Grease made it easier but there was no looseness.

These came from Diverse Suspension Technologies (suspension.com). They don't have much for the Corvair.

[www.suspension.com]

ps: I sent a request to see if they would be interested in supporting our ours. I will let you know if I hear back from them.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2018 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ Z71 Centennial Edition
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: October 23, 2017 06:42AM

Thanks guys I will check w/ the seller about a return/refund. I see some MOOG sets on ebay right now but they are all the screw-in type.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Other fun car: Porsche 911 GT3
Boring daily drivers
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: October 23, 2017 11:00AM

I'm curious as to how long a ball joint should last, as the daily drivers here in the club with over 100 K on them still pass our state safety inspection on their original ball joints. And when I was doing Corvair repair, I replaced very few ball joints in customer cars. They are lightly loaded. So if they are known for not lasting long, what is long, 200K? confused smiley

Late model idler arms get replaced waaaay more often!grinning smiley

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2017 11:01AM by Frank DuVal.

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: October 23, 2017 03:29PM

I still have my originals BJs. They have about 150K, I say about because my speedo or cable broke several times over the years. They are still in great shape, I check them once a year. I will say that since the car is a turbo, it gets fresh oil every 2K, so it got greased as well. I switch to synthetic chassis lube almost as soon as it became available. The car is now a summer time toy and no longer my DD, but it served me well for many years. Since it has Pa Classic plates rather than antique it get and annual safety inspection, no problems.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: October 23, 2017 04:08PM

I have replaced ball joints in 3 of the Corvairs that I have owned. I know my Convertible needs at least the lowers. My father's 65 Corsa that we put together back in the early 90's were so bad that you would get the death wobble. After working on cars for a living for many years I can say any play in them is bad but when Corvairs have play in them it seems to cause wobbles and other issues because of the lack of weight up front.

Lee J

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: October 23, 2017 04:09PM

I should add that many people do not know how to properly check them.

Lee J

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: October 23, 2017 04:31PM

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I should add that many people do not know how to
> properly check them.


Well then, maybe this is a good time to explain to those of us who are not educated in this science just how to check/inspect our front-ends.
I truly would like to know how to do it right, and not just rely on, "Yeah, it goes in the general direction I point it."

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver

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Re: How tight should an NOS front lower ball joint be?
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: October 23, 2017 05:09PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gnvair Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I should add that many people do not know how
> to
> > properly check them.
>
>
> Well then, maybe this is a good time to explain to
> those of us who are not educated in this science
> just how to check/inspect our front-ends.
> I truly would like to know how to do it right, and
> not just rely on, "Yeah, it goes in the general
> direction I point it."

I check 1 side at a time by jacking it up under the lower control arm. Typically leaving about 6 inches under the tire. I then use a large pry bar leveraging between the ground and the tire. Sometimes it helps to have a second person assist so that you can either watch The joint or put your hand on it. Just make sure your wheel bearings are tight as sometimes people think the play from the bearings is a loose joint.

Lee J

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