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Corvair horse power
Posted by: sekaon ()
Date: August 08, 2017 04:36PM

Ok why is it so hard make HP is a corvair and seems that VW seem to make lots with 2 less cylinders

David Noakes
Nova Scotia, Canada

1968 Corvair 500
140 motor 4 speed

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: August 08, 2017 05:11PM

sekaon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok why is it so hard make HP is a corvair and
> seems that VW seem to make lots with 2 less
> cylinders

There are a lot more available parts including modern performance cylinder
heads available for the VW. One of the reasons is because of the amount of VW's produced and sold through out the world.
Corvairs were made and sold mostly in North America over the course of 10 model years. Parts development pretty much died in the 70's with the exception of small hobbyists and niche builders.
There are just not enough people interested in spending money to buy the higher end items such as cylinder heads for someone to spend the time and money to develop and manufacture them.
That is not to say that there aren't guys out there who can build something that makes power. But it is generally accepted that a good race Corvair engine can be $10k+

Lee J
Southern New Jersey near Philly.
1966 Corsa 180/4 speed
1969 Monza convertible 140/4 speed

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Re: Corvair horse power
Date: August 08, 2017 05:20PM

Look at the heads - intake manifold restriction = expensive to machine the old off and expensive to cast the new one.
Exhaust port - expensive to eliminate the restricted straight down port which is pinched for clearance to the push-rod tubes. Slanted ports require machining and then new adapters/headers to complete.

New performance heads for Corvairs would do a world of improvement. Maybe someday soon, since the cost of the computer duplication drops continuously.

We can always hope!


Dan Davis - Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ 65 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn (my current driver!!)
~ 1964 Monza 'Vert ~ 65 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black int ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4
1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: August 09, 2017 09:00AM

There are not that many real Corvair engine specialists. Like a handful nationally. VW, dime a dozen. Parts available everywhere cheap. As Lee said, a real racing Corvair engine is around $10k. Puts out close to 300HP but really not suitable for street use. VW hot engines can and are run on the street. Go to water cooled and the HP can really go up but those are Subaru and Porsche engines. We are stuck with air cooled and that alone limits power since the accompanying heat kills things fast.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Corvair horse power
Date: August 09, 2017 10:06AM

Water injection takes care of many of the heat issues.
Eddie Perez is running a performance Corvair with an electric fan cooling and NOS to boot!
It takes knowledge and living on the edge - it ain't for everyone! One more reason to love Corvair!


Dan Davis - Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ 65 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn (my current driver!!)
~ 1964 Monza 'Vert ~ 65 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black int ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4
1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: August 09, 2017 10:30AM

If someone wants to man up with the buckets of cash.

There are drawing for water cooled billet Corvair heads.

Multiple investors needed at only ten grand apiece.

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: August 09, 2017 10:39AM

Not hard to make more HP on a Corvair engine. And it won't cost much money (if you have lots of money). Is 140HP or 180HP not enough for you?

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: Leon ()
Date: August 09, 2017 11:12AM

I have people ask me how much power my Monza has rather often, the answer I give them is "Enough to break something"

Star NC
1965 Monza Coupe, turbocharged 140/4spd, Carter AFB 4bbl, E-flow Crown turbo, water/meth injection, driver
1965 Corsa Coupe, 140/4spd, future project
1966 Monza Coupe, 110/4spd parts car
1966 Monza 'vert, 95/PG parts car
1985 Dodge W350 4dr turbocharged 440/4spd

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: Jim Stukenborg ()
Date: August 09, 2017 12:30PM

When one of the Corvairs pulled away from the Corvair Performance clinic and left behind two black strips for about 30 feet with racing tires I was pretty impressed.

When Jim Schardt pressured a midyear Corvette for several laps at the Mid Ohio Vintage races until the Corvette slid off the track I was impressed again.

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: cepak ()
Date: August 09, 2017 12:44PM

Jim Stukenborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When one of the Corvairs pulled away from the
> Corvair Performance clinic and left behind two
> black strips for about 30 feet with racing tires I
> was pretty impressed.
>
> When Jim Schardt pressured a midyear Corvette for
> several laps at the Mid Ohio Vintage races until
> the Corvette slid off the track I was impressed
> again.

Who's cars and what are their specs?


Tom Cepak
Fort Worth, TX

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: ben_w ()
Date: August 09, 2017 02:16PM

I really don't get the VW crowd's fixation with hp (or bhp).

I've my 'rebuilt from a complete basket case' 110 engine in my buggy. I've been asked so many times why I didn't just build a big type 1 engine.

Why? Because every VW man and his dog have built a big type 1 engine and yes, they produce a decent hp figure, momentarily, right at the screaming end of the rev range. Who cares? I can count on one hand the amount of Corvair buggies in the UK and I've WAAAAY more torque right down at the bottom end of the rev range and I don't have to thrash my engine to get it.

HP isn't the be all and end all of engines....

---------------------------------------------------------
64, 110hp powered Beach Buggy!
---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: sekaon ()
Date: August 09, 2017 03:33PM

Well i don't want tones of hp but maybe i need to to work on mine a bit. I have a 1965 140 4 carb 4 speed with 3.89 gears in my 1968 it came like that when i bought it. Now i can not lay no 30ft of rubber i am lucky to out run a ford focas.
So any suggestions on what to do to get a bit more.

David Noakes
Nova Scotia, Canada

1968 Corvair 500
140 motor 4 speed

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: Leon ()
Date: August 09, 2017 03:42PM

If you want power do what I have done to my 140 Monza, ditch the four carbs in favor of turbocharging. Tuning, timing control and water/methanol are critical for the life of the engine but power is a non issue and mine has been running strong for four years and 20k + miles.

Star NC
1965 Monza Coupe, turbocharged 140/4spd, Carter AFB 4bbl, E-flow Crown turbo, water/meth injection, driver
1965 Corsa Coupe, 140/4spd, future project
1966 Monza Coupe, 110/4spd parts car
1966 Monza 'vert, 95/PG parts car
1985 Dodge W350 4dr turbocharged 440/4spd

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: WalterElias ()
Date: August 09, 2017 08:12PM

Camping a couple of weeks ago, I was talking to a guy about our UltraVan being Corvair powered and he wondered about putting a souped up VW motor in it. I just said, "Uh, no, I don't think it could handle the sustained demand for torque and HP".

Dan Kling
1961 Greenbrier Deluxe, 110 HP, 4spd, 3.89 stump puller
1963 Spyder Coupe, restored, converted to 4spd Saginaw
1967 UltraVan #299, The migration has begun, we're on the road again......Save the Whales!

Photos of our Greenbrier, UltraVan and work-in-progress @

[www.flickr.com]

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: August 09, 2017 09:19PM

There's some differences between hopped up vw's and approximately equally hopped up corvairs that make vw's seem to make more power. One is that vw's
have solid flat tappet lifters, and the diameter of the foot of the lifter is
bigger... consequently, the vw cam will develop more lift at the same duration
as the corvair cam will, or, at the same peak lift, the corvair cam will need
more duration, it is as simple as that. Also, because the vw normally runs solids, the rpm's can go much higher... its not that uncommon for solid lifter
engines to go to 8500 rpm, but hydraulic lifter engines start loosing power
around 7000 rpm, because of lifter pump up.
Also, and probably most importantly, VW's are very light compared to Corvairs-
its not uncommon for a suitably lightened VW to be in the 1600lb range.
Cars at that weight can run in the ten's in the 1/4mile (with stock crankcases!). It is HARD to get a Corvair down under 2200lbs, and still have
much of it left. None of these differences are impossible to overcome... it just takes a lot more work, and much more custom one off pieces. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: August 10, 2017 05:43AM

The middle cylinder adds a lot of difficulty in removing the heat. You can make a bunch of power but if you can't remove the heat it will fail.
You can make a lot of power and use it 1/4 mile at a time easier than an extended event like a road race or salt flat.
Both the intake and exhaust flow are not swell.
Jon Brakke road raced a Corvair in SCCA for 20 years. He tried a lot of different things to make power within the confines of the GCR. Lots of cylinder head trouble and then when getting over 225 HP crankcase trouble.
You can get past these things with time and money if desired.
The VW engine is very robust and sturdy. The top is closed up with the rod access from the cylinder bores. The bottom has a very small and sturdy oil access. They don't have the middle cylinder to contend with for structural integrity.
GM did the 6 cylinder first with the Corvair. Porsche did it better a few years later with the 911. GM certainly could have done it better if the engineering department wasn't bridled by the accounting department.
Just some opinions to add to the good comments above.
I wish I had the time and money to build some nice performance $10,000 Corvair crate engines.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: August 10, 2017 10:10PM

There was a article about Jon Brakke's car in a Corsa Communique in the early
2000's- from what I remembered, it was an account of his race at Mid-Ohio, running his car in GT-3... He had 2 engines for it, one was his practice engine
and it made 260-265 hp, and was a very consistent reliable engine for what he was doing. His full race engine made 270-275hp, but he had a heck of a time getting more than a couple of laps out of it before the valve guides would start seeping oil. The problem with that full race head was that the guides were so short they couldn't control the valves well enough, and after a couple of laps the guides were worn enough that he was down on power again, from
oil consumption. He ended up running his practice engine for the race, placing 5th, against cars that had considerably more technology, were lighter, smaller, and more aerodynamic.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Corvair horse power
Date: August 10, 2017 10:44PM

How much HP does it take to get a stock bodied LM Corvair up past 150 mph and beyond?
Article from back in the 1960s on Tom Keosababian's Corvair








Dan Davis - Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ 65 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn (my current driver!!)
~ 1964 Monza 'Vert ~ 65 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black int ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4
1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Corvair horse power
Posted by: Jim Stukenborg ()
Date: August 13, 2017 02:23PM

Cepak, to answer your question, I believe the race car at the Performance Workshop belonged to Ken Hand. Ken is a Corvair repair expert out of Michigan.

Jim Schardt races a Corvair Stinger in vintage racing with the engines built by Gary Funkhouser here in the Dayton, Ohio area. I don't know if you would want to drive it in traffic, but Jim drove it to a Corvair club sponsored cruise-in.

Jim

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