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Current Page: 12 of 13
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: CORSATURBO65 ()
Date: September 08, 2019 03:37PM

KEVIN:

You build the e-drive fan and I will send you the proper infinitely "Variable Speed Controller",VSC, correctly sized to power it.

Commit to building it and I will send it to you.

P2M Super Fan Controller is fully digital operation to control your aftermarket electric fan. The compact size of the controller makes positioning the controller inside your vehicle easy.

Features: Derale Performance Part Number 16757 PWM Electric Fan Controller Sensor
Severe duty 3M double stick tape can attach sensor to engine cooling shroud or can be stuck onto the side of the oil cooler. [I would also dab epoxy over it]
Constantly adjusts fan speed from off to fan idle speed to wide open based on temperature being inputted from the temperature sensor.

- Dash mounted Digital LCD Screen Display for oil temp and vehicle voltage.
- "Dual fan control" Temperature Sensor capable for oil temp or additionally can be used for water temp if applicable.
- 5 Deg. Celsius Cool Off Period Between Fan Turn On Operation
- 40 AMP Heavy Duty Electric Relay with 10 AWG Relay Wires to Handle High Amperage Electronic Fans
- Displays Vehicle Voltage
** NOW COMES WITH NEW SLIMMER STYLE LCD DASH MONITOR DISPLAY

JUST SAY-IN...

CORSATURBO65
RICH

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: September 08, 2019 04:00PM

Didn't Keith Woods play bass for Rod Stewart?

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: September 08, 2019 05:45PM

[www.delcoremy.com]

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: September 08, 2019 05:49PM

CORSATURBO65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KEVIN:
>
> You build the e-drive fan and I will send you the proper infinitely "Variable Speed Controller",VSC, correctly sized to power it.
>
> Commit to building it and I will send it to you.
>
> P2M Super Fan Controller is fully digital operation to control your aftermarket electric fan. The compact size of the controller makes positioning the controller inside your vehicle easy.
>
> Features: Derale Performance Part Number 16757 PWM Electric Fan Controller Sensor
> Severe duty 3M double stick tape can attach sensor to engine cooling shroud or can be stuck onto the side of the oil cooler. [I would also dab epoxy over it]
> Constantly adjusts fan speed from off to fan idle speed to wide open based on temperature being inputted from the temperature sensor.
>
> - Dash mounted Digital LCD Screen Display for oil temp and vehicle voltage.
> - "Dual fan control" Temperature Sensor capable for oil temp or additionally can be used for water temp if applicable.
> - 5 Deg. Celsius Cool Off Period Between Fan Turn On Operation
> - 40 AMP Heavy Duty Electric Relay with 10 AWG Relay Wires to Handle High Amperage Electronic Fans
> - Displays Vehicle Voltage
> ** NOW COMES WITH NEW SLIMMER STYLE LCD DASH MONITOR DISPLAY
>
> JUST SAY-IN...
>
> CORSATURBO65
> RICH

For most Turbo's with my fan, 2500-2800 cfm is probably enough, and this will take 6-8 hp, depending on the set up, and this is between 9000rpm and 7900 rpm for the fan. Assuming 50 amps and 48 volts with a 3phase a/c motor, this gets you 4.51 hp @ 90% efficiency, which isn't even close to enough.
@50 amps and 100 volts, and 90% efficiency, this is 9.4 hp, which sounds about right, but this is a 3 phase a/c motor and the variable drives for those things are stupidly expensive, and a motor of that size is incredibly heavy.

What I meant about keeping ones cooling reqirements reasonable, is for a low hp N/A car under a light load, and this would be taken care of with a lot less fan rpm and torque, and spinning the fan up to 6000 rpm should probably be plenty. For something like that, gearing the fan down without lower shrouds makes it properly cooled and is mechanically "variable" drive, and should not use more than 3% of the gross engine output, which is an enormous increase in usable power compared with the stock fan. This works out only because my fan is so much more efficient than stock, and because of the gain in efficiency, all the potential advantages of an e-drive are lost. I don't understand what the fascination is with an e-drive for my fan. If cost is no object, and you JUST HAVE to ditch the mule drive, why not go to a hydraulic drive? these things are way light and don't have the conversion efficiency issues brought up earlier.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: September 23, 2019 07:47PM

Kevin- put me on the list for the group purchase for the production fan. smileys with beer

Ken
'62 Spyder Coupe
Florida


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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: September 24, 2019 07:18PM

Ken- you are officially, On the list!!!smileys with beer Thanks!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: racingguy2 ()
Date: October 23, 2019 09:49PM

Amazing work! I'm a engineer for a race team and I've machined a few prototype fan blades myself, so I have a whole different level of respect for the work you've put in! If you need additional machining capacity, hit me up, but in the mean time put me on your list please!

Attachments:
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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: wv-geo ()
Date: October 24, 2019 05:54AM

Add me to the list also, please.

Dan Stark
Hurricane, WV

1961 Lakewood 500, 80HP, PG
1964 Corvair 500 Coupe, 140HP, 4spd (Christine)
1965 Mustang Coupe, 6cyl, 3spd

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 24, 2019 06:27PM

wv-geo... you are SO on the list!!! I have you on double!!!smileys with beer

racingguy2- coming from someone like you that knows how darned hard this stuff can be, I'm truly honored to be able to say you are "officially" ON THE LIST!!!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: DAVECS1 ()
Date: October 25, 2019 05:14AM

Kevin, this is incredible. I really had not thought about all the impacts the fan has on power and driveability. I barely run my engine up to 5K as it is just an ice cream scooter, but the fan noise is noticeable. I have spent the last couple year adjusting my fueling maps to deal with the transient temps during engine warm up and operating temp saturation. Also I have found on cooler days if you take off and run steady state you will not hit full temp until you stop for a bit as the cooling halts full temp rise, at least for me as I have no bellows to close my flap doors.

Reading this thread has me really thinking. I have done a bunch of fuel tunning to work around using bellows as they are getting harder to find. They can break and be un noticed, and well I had the capability so why not.Reading this thread I now realize I am missing out on some efficiency and possibly noise reduction without working flapper doors. In conjunction with that thought, what if I had a fuel map that operated the flapper doors and took advantage of Kevin's fan. Now we go from making the older corvair engine trying to match the driveability of a newer car, to possibly coming up with some air cooled advantages, and possible a great tool for noise management in the engine bay. Could go one step further and possible use and AC clutch to engage and disengage the fan, or possibly a hydraulic drive to reduce fan RPM at higher RPMs at lighter loads.

Curse you Mr. NASH, I have been happily driving my corvair with the hood down, I see that coming to an end LOL!

1964 Monza Convertible
110 4 speed
Peoria, IL

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 25, 2019 08:15PM

DAVECS1- you got me cogitiating what kind of hp usage my fan could use for lower hp/cooling demands, so I used the fan laws:

1.3:1 pulley ratio
eng rpm hp

4k 2.12
5k 4.13
6k 7.14

1.2:1 pulley ratio

4k 1.66
5k 3.25
6k 5.62

What I found interesting is that even at the 1.2:1 pulley ratio, at 4k, no cooling is lost over stock with the lower shrouds off, as the pressures are identical to the stock fan when the lower shrouds are removed, and if one were crafty enough to add ram air and only captured 65% of what is possible (easy to do as I found out!) theres still more cooling than stock (with the lower shrouds off), at the stock pulley ratio.

If a guy was so crafty as to NOT take the lower shrouds off, but instead cut some large holes in the lower shrouds, and build a set of auxiliary doors that open and close with temps, (via servo motors perhaps) and drive the normal door openings the same way, and hinge the summer winter plates to open and close for ultra fast warm ups, AND put some extra flaps in the openings of the deck lid (close these for fast warm up, open for extra cooling) you would have complete, total control of the cooling system, getting crazy fast warm up and plenty of cooling, with a stupidly low power consumption by the fan, even at nose bleed rpms. Theres servo drives out there that would seem perfect for something like that and since there's numerous ways to manipulate the cooling, even if part of the system partially failed the other parts could compensate. And the efi system can compensate also... beyond a certain eng temp (that it should never hit if things are working right) richen the hell out of those numbers! I actually do this with my efi, and it has NEVER gone there yet!

Done like that, we could take air cooled engines where they've never been!

I know what you mean about dialing the efi in for cold weather starts and warm ups... I'm within 1% of the correct engine temp numbers between 60 degrees and 140, and closed loop comes in at 100 degrees, I literally cant feel it go in, and the engine loves running at stoich in a light load... it is really close to warming up the same way as it does during the warmer weather, but I feel like I could really make it AWSEOME by hinging the summer winter plates and a set of flaps on the hood openings where I cut off half the area until the engine bay temps hit 75degrees. One of my many winter projects!
I'm floating these ideas out there to some of you folks that know how to talk
to electronic devices much better than I... just to stir the "devil's influence" among you! tee hee hee!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: DAVECS1 ()
Date: October 26, 2019 03:29PM

They have linear actuators with position sensing built in. I have two driver outputs left on my EFI controller. I am contemplating if I need the flaps to open variable or would it be ok just to pop them open around 175 or 180. I go in to closed loop at 160. If you could get ram air while cruising the highway you could possibly shut the flaps, a bit to say on fan power. Or another idea would be to leave the flaps open and clutch the fan to off. I think I may investigate some of the torque converter fan drives they use on large trucks, may be an option. Depending on how much your fan is I could throw that into the mix to help dial back all the power being used to cool the engine now.

1964 Monza Convertible
110 4 speed
Peoria, IL

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 26, 2019 04:47PM

You definitely want the doors to vary their opening based on current conditions, and this is best done based on load... like looking at manifold pressure. Waiting for temperature based inputs to move the doors is going to be hopelessly late, making the head temperature climb before it comes back down, in some situations and way too early in others, leaving the head too cold. When it is load based, the doors will be open part way on flat ground (keeping the heads happy for that situation) and then when on a hill, the doors open as the load gets harder increasing cooling as needed, and ideally keeping the heads at a constant temperature. One of the issues with the damper doors is that they don't really work that way... part way open under a light load, then on a hill, the head temps rise, then the extra heat causes the bellows to fully extend, all this takes time and by the time the doors fully open, (and the heads get 50-60 degrees hotter) the extra load is over with but the heads are too hot. The extra stuff like ram air doors and auxiliary doors can be rigged in a similar way but perhaps they become active after the main doors are near fully extended and the air temps leaving the heads are still too high.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: DAVECS1 ()
Date: October 26, 2019 06:06PM

If the doors have to vary I will probably have to use a separate controller. I would have to add another temp and map sensor. I am going to do a bit of research.

1964 Monza Convertible
110 4 speed
Peoria, IL

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: CoCoCo ()
Date: October 27, 2019 01:33PM

Maybe one of the projects for the manufacturer in that other "Cylinder Head" thread could build a new machined aluminum module comprised of multiple louvers to take the place of the single damper door. They could be opened and closed by the variable sender via a motor or whatever you guys are talking about.

Just thinking of louvers recently because I've seen them in other situations and "storm shutters" popped into my head. Or maybe it was the cover over a dryer vent?eye rolling smiley
Several louvers pivoting in the same frame and actuated by a single arm/rod setup.

Reason I thought of the cylinder head discussion is the whole module could be machined out of machined aluminum. Talk about bling on the back of a Corvair!
Metal doors are so old school!
Except maybe it's easier to weight a single door to fail open, where multiple louvers would probably fail closed? Nah...

So many ideas, such a small mind...smoking smiley

Paul

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 30, 2019 02:25PM

I cant remember where I saw it but "someone" put heater vent shutters in the lower shrouds and linked these to the normal bellows so that the shutters were full open when the normal doors were full open, but the shutters would close sometime before full opening by the normal doors. This is really easy to do if the bellows are working properly, as the vent shutters require a linear motion to open and it is in the same direction as the bellows. The summer winter plates can be hinged and linked to this also, a slight bugger is that it needs to close firmly shut without depending on the t-stats for the closing force... I've heard of people putting magnets on the plates so when the plates get nearly shut, the magnets take over and shut the rest of the way. I like this idea, as it is a simple, analog way of both adding a lot of extra airflow when needed and speeding up the warm up when needed... it does put an extra load on the bellows though.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: Yoursmiledoc ()
Date: November 05, 2019 09:42PM

Put me on the list too!!

Yoursmiledoc@gmail.com

Thanks,
Bob

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: alphasud ()
Date: November 06, 2019 12:47PM

How about a simple solution of using engine vacuum working a servo to operate the doors. Fail-safe would be open doors with not vacuum. That way under hard acceleration the doors would be full open. You could use a vacuum switch valve for closed loop control with the ECU. No need to do PWM just a simple on and off would suffice.

David North Idaho
1965 Corsa Turbo converted to 140
1971 Super Beetle with 2.5L Subaru engine
2004 F350 work truck
2004 Cayenne Turbo

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: November 06, 2019 03:22PM

A small vacuum port to make them move slowly would allow for variable opening if the temperature sensing is responsive enough.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 06, 2019 09:07PM

Yoursmiledoc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Put me on the list too!!
>
> Yoursmiledoc@gmail.com
>
> Thanks,
> Bob

Bob- you are officially on the list!!!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Current Page: 12 of 13


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