Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
Current Page: 8 of 9
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: October 28, 2018 08:04AM

I used solidworks to design the fan, I don't have the module that has the full on cfd features to do that. I looked into having someone else analyze my design
that way and it was more expensive than it was to have my initial prototypes made.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: TheRealHip ()
Date: October 28, 2018 08:33PM

No solidworks dealers in your area that would help out.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: DAVECS1 ()
Date: November 04, 2018 08:33PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A Bladed fan is mainly for Pressure..
>
> Our Centrifugal fan is for Flow..
>
> Kevin's fan does both.
>
> I was lucky enough to get paid for working on
> these monsters...
>
> 1st Stage was a wheel like Kevin's [ for suction
> ]
>
> 2nd stage was a wheel like ours...
>
> Very efficient but built like a tractor...
> Caterpillar 5650 3125kw / 4190 SHP
>
> 1st pic is engine setting in Houston warehouse
> after de-commisiong. 2nd is enclosure they were
> in... Hot air leaks left their mark on the Door..

Wow small world. I was asked to design and implement digital controls for that old dog. Testing it was pretty fun. I was able to get the turbine almost transparent with the variable pitch blades. They wanted to know if it could have braking potential. Lol.

1964 Monza Convertible
110 4 speed
Peoria, IL

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 04, 2018 08:53PM

It is a small World!


That Variable nozzle did brake the power turbine during large off loads!

Great system... but so few parts... they only built 11 for "field trials"....

few spares!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: DAVECS1 ()
Date: November 05, 2018 03:36AM

I used the igniter from a chinook helicopter and a secondary steering hydraulic unit from a large wheel loader to start it. In the power generation plant it came from they used compressed air and I think they manually ignited the combustor, as it just ran non stop. In a truck that was not ideal. Had a couple interesting starts and flame outs getting that to work. I believe the one I messed with came out South America. The first time we ran it, it collapssd the intake ducting to the dyno cell.

1964 Monza Convertible
110 4 speed
Peoria, IL

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: Demon-Xanth ()
Date: November 05, 2018 07:48AM

Just spitballing a thought here, would it be feasible to make one with a large enough center hub to house an electric motor to mount to a flat top cover for a properly spec'ed electric fan arrangement?

'vairless. But not forever.
Cars need to drive to be alive. One that never leaves the garage may be perfect, but dead.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 05, 2018 07:17PM

A properly spec'ed electric fan will end up very heavy, and big. and to do that
would involve cutting a large hole in the deck lid I'm afraid. If the point is
to de-couple the cooling fan from the engine, a hydraulic drive would be way better and much lighter, but fairly expensive. An efficient enough fan would be
replacing, in effect the water pump and not the radiator fan, and the same
style of drive for the "water pump" should be used, as the coolant and heat demands track engine rpm in a predictable way that is best served by a simple
belt drive.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 19, 2018 08:41PM

I thought I would update this thread a little with a graph showing the horsepower
usage differences between the Nashfan and the Mag fan

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 19, 2018 10:16PM

Interesting graph Kevin, . . . .just what are we looking at?
I want to think, it is HP on the Vert., and RPM's on the Hor.
BUT, we all know what happens when you ASSuME things!

.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border,
I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
'66 Monza Coupe - 4spd, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 Monza Vert. - PG, 140 Daily driver beater
'67 A/C Moredoor Monza - 140 4-spd. driver
.
non-vair
'04 Dodge Cummins Quad Dualy, approaching 400K
17'Terry

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: November 19, 2018 10:40PM

graph showing the horsepower usage differences between the Nashfan and the Mag fan

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: November 20, 2018 06:13PM

Is that fan speed or engine speed? I know the fan is geared up, but not sure what the ratio is. Either way, my car made 90whp, so a bump in 9hp is 10% and probably noticable!

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Powder Springs, GA.



1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 20, 2018 09:23PM

The horizontal axis is engine rpm, the vertical axis is hp. The fan laws are
used to calculate the hp consumption, and those laws use fan rpm. To do that
then I multiply by the fan pulley ratio of 1.58. I actually "rounded down" a little on the mag fan upper rpm usage numbers, in that I used 8 hp for the 4000
rpm number, when in actuality it is supposed to be 8.3 and for the 5000 rpm
number I used 15 when it really is 15.4. It does keep getting more ugly for the
mag fan, I think the gm numbers go up to 18 before the end of their test's. OUCH!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: Blue smoke ()
Date: November 21, 2018 06:01AM

how often do you rebuild your turbo?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: November 21, 2018 06:06AM

A properly rebuilt turbo will outlast an engine 200K plus.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: MikeVair ()
Date: November 21, 2018 04:03PM

Please add me to your list!!!

1965 Corsa Convertible
1963 Convertible
1964 Monza Coupe
NTCA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 21, 2018 09:51PM

MikeVair, you too are on the list! and thank you!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: November 25, 2018 02:19PM

Here's a neat comparison of outputs between my fan tested hot, and the GM numbers
for the Mag fan on a 140 tested cold, and a third line that is the calculated pressures for the Mag fan when hot engine effect is taken into account, using
the GM hot engine effect exponent of 1.8. This chart makes the comparisons easier
as all pulley ratio's are identical, and hot engine effect is taken into account.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2018 02:25PM by 63turbo.

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: May 14, 2019 08:57PM

I thought I would update this thread a little, as I have been able to get some testing in. The Nashfan has hit a new pressure record!! The old peak was 13.67"@ 5250 engine rpm, and was done with the airflow pulley and "short" bellmouth. Since that test was done, I started testing a taller bell last fall, and was kind of disappointed with it then, as it seemed like I had run into some sort of weird pressure vs flow trade... the pressures at elevated rpms seemed down compared to the "short" bell, but it was impossible to test this bell properly until it was hot enough.
Conditions were ideal last week to test the big bell! 14.67" @ roughly 6000 rpm, and 13.67" @ 5500. The pressure kept building and was not giving me any signs of stalling at 6k,,, I just wasn't going to rev it higher!
This was an interesting test for a couple of reasons. One is that the taller bell does seem to slightly reduce the pressure at a given rpm (it took 250 more rpm to equal the pressure of the short bell), but does extend the rpm range. I believe that this might be caused by the cross over manifold becoming a blockage as the bell gets taller, and might not do that on an NA car. The other interesting observation was that the pressure at idle after this test was done was down to .41" at 1000 rpm, and when the fan laws are extrapolated from .41" @1000 engine rpm out to 6000 rpm, you are supposed to get roughly 14.6", indicating that belt slippage still hasn't become a problem!!
This test, like the previous tests last summer were done with the restrictive lower shrouds installed, and the estimated flow for this test would be around 1900 cfm. My estimate for flow without the lower shrouds on would be around 2660cfm, and this would be enough to properly cool most cars at 250hp or less.
The early adopter fans should be capable of 2873cfm set-up like that!!!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 14, 2019 09:34PM

Promising!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My New Fan!!
Posted by: DaveO90s4 ()
Date: May 17, 2019 02:25AM

Hi Kevin,

Very interesting indeed. Looking at the pulley i’m Inclined to think that air rushing inwards and then transitioning around that flat face of the pulley may be ‘robbing’ you of some air pressure. Absent the turbo setup, a nose cone (like on an aircraft propellor) may be advantageous? Might even help with the stock mag fan arrangement.

Please add me to the list of interested persons - but it will have to be Reverse Rotation for my application! (Ha ha).

Cheers

DaveO

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 8 of 9


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.