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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: 63spyder ()
Date: June 16, 2017 06:56AM

Looks like the rockers have been reinforced or rebuilt?

Wayne in Glide Oregon
63 spyder conv.(wifes car finished ,owned 17 years)65 monza conv.unfinished 14 years and never driven,yet!!!.61 rampside (new toy and distraction)

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: June 16, 2017 06:58AM

Your vairy own mystery shifter!!! smiling bouncing smileysmiling bouncing smileysmiling bouncing smiley

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: 737ETOPS ()
Date: June 16, 2017 08:01AM

Very cool Subaru engines are great love my EJ22. Any cooling issues with the radiator and electric fan side mounted like that?

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: June 16, 2017 08:19AM

63spyder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like the rockers have been reinforced or
> rebuilt?

Don't think so but I do see that black line that looks like road tar on the left rocker underside. The body has the usual minor rust areas though. Certainly nothing scary strength-wise.


737ETOPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very cool Subaru engines are great love my EJ22.
> Any cooling issues with the radiator and electric
> fan side mounted like that?

The radiator install by the PO was only enough to get by while he worked out the bugs in the driveline. He planned to upgrade it later, as will I, once I confirm all the pieces are playing nicely together.

I noticed this is one of those LM Corvairs with the body tag on the left. I don't see those too often.

Passed Missouri Safety Inspection in 2001!

Probably will sell the clock and put in a tach later.


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: didget69 ()
Date: June 17, 2017 02:36AM

I'd prefer the EZ30 flat-6 Subaru Engine...

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

bnc

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: June 19, 2017 08:22AM

This weekend I made good on my threat to learn a few more things about what is inside the heart of this conversion. Glad I did.

As I prepped to drop the powertrain I found out why one U-joint strap was busted. The U-joints are too big for the yokes and someone had used a die grinder and brute force to try to make them fit. I previously mentioned one of the half shafts was backwards and I guess they just installed it like that instead of pressing the bearings back out and putting the yokes on the opposite ends. It might not make any difference in operation but it certainly looks wrong visually.

Seeing how this engine/tranny combo is new to me I did not know the balance point of the assembly. When I carefully loosened the transmission support bolts I expected the tranny nose to drop a little. Instead, it was held tight to the mount because the balance point was out past the other mounts under the engine. This meant that the entire weight of the powertrain was hanging cantilevered off of the two remaining mounts, one of which had a cracked weld half way around the tubing below it. At this point, I was visualizing the cracked tube letting go and the possibility of the engine and tranny falling out of the car sideways from 5’ above the pavement. I quickly got a lift table underneath and kept it up close until I was ready to drop the entire unit. One I had it all ready, I lowered the table and rolled the whole thing into the shade for a good review and a lunch break.

With the powertrain is out I was better able to evaluate how they hung the engine in the car. The original plan to support the engine at the tranny tail and at the stock engine mounts was probably a good plan until they ran into trouble with the exhaust and decided to cut away the rear support and add angled side supports instead.

When the powertrain goes back in it will certainly have to get a better support design. I think I will return to the rear mount like they originally intended and route the exhaust around it. After I had the assembly safely lowered down on the hydraulic cart a good friend stopped by. He doesn’t know diddly about Corvairs but he sure knows about structural dynamics having worked over 25+ years for a major helicopter manufacturer in Phoenix. He has offered his services to engineer the supports properly.

After splitting the engine and tranny I learned that while the clutch and flywheel were unused, there had been some water intrusion resulting in light surface rust on the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces. You can easily read the label on the Sachs clutch facing so I know the clutch was never used even once. I cleaned up the rust and it is ready for re-assembly. Other than one messed up hex head bolt on the flywheel, I found the engine to the tranny assembly seems to be sound. I saw the KEP 6500 kit stamping on the adapter plate so I was correct that they used a Kennedy adapter kit so I can trust the engineering of those parts.










Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: June 26, 2017 01:28PM

Update:

Got the power train all back into one unit and along the way found some more issues.

As I was sliding the tranny into place I needed to rotate the input shaft slightly so that shaft splines would align with the clutch splines. I grabbed to left output flange and spun it and notice the right flange had a severe runout issue. Each side has an adapter that nests over the Porsche flange before you attach the half shaft yoke. One adapter was almost 1/8" out and never seated on the flange fully. I'm guessing that when it didn't bolt up easily somebody ran it on home with an impact gun. I have a feeling it's been that way since it was in a sandrail because the inside of the adapter was full of fine sand. I was able to get it right by cleaning up the burrs on the lip and re-tapping the threads.

I decided to check the engine as far as I could while it is out so I proceeded to make an engine stand and rig it up to run while on my lift table. I rigged up a small fuel can, Bosch pump and pressure gauge. When I pressurized the fuel lines I found a major flood of fuel from the right bank because the injectors did not have the outer O-rings installed. When I bought the car the PO included a spare fuel rail with injectors so I was able to scavenge parts and get it sealed.

The PO told me he had the engine running at one time but that's had to believe unless it was just while on starter fluid spray only. The injectors were all wired to the IAC controller outputs by accident so they were not opening at all.

With some help from the web I got the injectors wired correctly to the ancient engine controller. Now I had spark just before TDC #1, fuel flow through the injectors and a start switch rigged. Would she fire?

Well, she did fire up and run but very poorly. Lot's of shaking and quaking with a good mix of what sounds like rod knock. I ran it twice like you will see in the video below to get the oil warm and into circulation.

With all of the rockin' and knockin' during the test fire I decided to do a compression check. Not good. 60, 90, 90, 125. Pressures should be in the 125# range at least. I might do a leak down test too but I think the PO got a deal on the engine because it was abused in the sandrail. The engine management system had nothing connected to the knock sensor input and I have no idea what engine map was running or how to change that if I wanted.

I'm thinking it is time to search for a known good engine and ECU system before I go any further. The bad engine I have will let me continue to tinker with the conversion.

Sumitted for your entertainment.



Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: June 26, 2017 04:02PM

Could be worse!! Lots of parts on this one..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: June 27, 2017 07:43AM

Well maybe I'm catching a little break on this one.

After the short test fires on Sunday it looks like something has loosened up between the heating cycles and getting fluids back into circulation.

I decided to look under one of the valve covers just for giggles and also to maybe do a leak down test while I was at it. Things looked pretty clean under the cover. I knew from seeing the heat tags that the heads had been rebuilt at some point in the past.

When I was bumping the engine around to TDC the starter seems much more labored than before. Battery was charged so why was it cranking slower? Anyway got to TDC, on the worst cylinder and hooked up the leak-down tester. Applied air pressure and read only 4% air loss. Thought I had a clogged hose to the cylinder because I expected much more air to be flowing through a cylinder that only read 60 PSI compression the day before.

Putting the clues together I wondered if the compression was now much better after the hot/cold cycles of the weekend test starts. Low and behold, the cylinder that read 60 PSI on Sunday now read 135 PSI on Monday. Checking the compression on the other three cylinders all showed much improvement.

Since I had the leak-down gauge out I tested the other three cylinders. All show acceptable results.

What is odd is that the cylinder with the lowest compression (#3 @ 135#) is not the cylinder with the worst leak-down numbers. Cylinder #1 has 160# compression but 4% leakage. When doing the leak-down test on #1 I can definitely hear air escaping into the crankcase but not into the intake or exhaust.

It was too late in the night at that point to run an engine with open exhaust so I called it a day.

Watching a few videos last night I now have a few clues to determine if I'm truly hearing rod knock. Apparently, these engines commonly have knocking from piston slap or timing belt tensioners and with no exhaust maybe what I'm hearing is something else. In the next few days I'll be setting up to run but this time with a temporary muffler and some cooling so I can run longer and be able to hear better.

I just need the engine to run reliably enough to prove out the rest of the conversion so maybe I'll have a chance with these better results.

#1 160 PSI 4% leakage with air escaping into crankcase
#2 165 PSI 1% leakage
#3 135 PSI 1% leakage
#4 170 PSI 2% leakage

Still having fun so far!

Here's pic results of the worst cylinder during the leak-down test.


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: July 06, 2017 01:20PM

Okay. So the noise is now confirmed to be rod knock. sad smiley

Upon dropping the oil pan, I was greeted by a pile of large rod bearing flakes swimming in the oil. I can see that rod cap #1 wiggles but there is no way to get to it, even to perform a temporary fix.

I located a very experienced Subie guy about 20 minutes away and he offered to give it a second opinion. He said it had a lot of good performance parts that could be re-used bu the main core was not worth the cost to repair. With his help, I found a newer 2.0T that I should be picking up this weekend. It is one of those JDM engines imported from Japan (when they retire their cars at around 30-40K miles). I also have a deal gong on getting a modern stand-alone ECU that will come pre-mapped and ready to run that specific engine.

I didn't want to invest more in the project but I also would hate to have it all ready to street test and then have a rod come out through the side. Except for my labor, I know that I would come out ahead if this all went badly and I had to part it out. No great risk to the long-term hobby dollars. Even the wife agreed it is a logical next step. Can't argue with that!


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: July 06, 2017 01:37PM

Makes sense to me!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: chris ()
Date: July 06, 2017 03:03PM

I enjoy reading about your adventures with this, for better or worse. I'm glad you're making some good progress.smileys with beer

'65 Monza 4 door
4 speed
110hp
Gardner, KS

Heart of America Corvair Owners Association

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: Paulsgt ()
Date: July 06, 2017 04:42PM

I can't wait to hear that you are driving down the road in your Subievair.

Paul Sergeant
CORSA Central Division Director / CORSA Treasurer <-new title
Lee's Summit, MO
CORSA since 1975
Member – HACOA, Corvair Minnesota, CORSA, Little Indians, POCI



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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: teddbrown ()
Date: July 07, 2017 06:07AM

Keep us updated. EdofSC and I traveled many miles to see a Subu conversion and was disappointed. This thing is cool as "all get out" and that 4 cyl engine produces more HP than the Corvair. The cool factor is way up there.

The Honvair engine/PG is sitting in the shop waiting for a donor and this gives me a little more inspiration.

Honvair Engine/PG Combination

Ted
Anderson, SC

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: July 07, 2017 07:38AM

Who made the HonVair adapter plate Ted?

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: teddbrown ()
Date: July 07, 2017 10:12AM

Phil Dally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who made the HonVair adapter plate Ted?

Short answer is me....with welding done by a professional.

I called KEP didn't have anything that would work. The Honda engine in a Corvair that was tried before was an old engine (50 hp) and would not match up anyway. I took many hours getting this one right and even then I forgot about the designed lean of 10 degrees by the engine (does not affect operation or oil supply as it was done to make the engine fit under the Honda Hood). I have not ran the engine since I drove it into the shop and will have to have all the EFI stuff connected, etc.

I now have more time, but the money supply for crazy projects will dry up now that I have partially retired.

Honvair

Ted
Anderson, SC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2017 10:15AM by teddbrown.

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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: July 07, 2017 12:06PM

Honda motor and Powerglide transmission...definition of reliable.

Corvair ring and pinion should be plenty strong to handle that Honda too.


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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: July 14, 2017 07:07AM

Picked up a 2.0 turbo engine from the local Subie guy along with a new pre-loaded stand-alone ECU, harness, adapters, etc. This core still has power steering, A/C and all the factory wires, sensors and even the connectors are intact. It should make for a much cleaner install. I also got a set of headers and few other cool bits to help adapt the exhaust system when the time comes. He threw in some extra motor mounts and also offered to buy the turbo from the old engine.

Over the next month or so, I'll be doing all the harness wiring and getting the engine ready to run on the stand. I'll remove the power steering pump and might take off the A/C compressor too initially. I drained and filtered the oil and it looked used but nothing scary was found. I'll look inside the oil filter too. I might even drop off an oil sample for analysis at the local lab just to see if anything bad shows up that can't be explained otherwise by the long period it has sat unused.


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 455 Toronado V8
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed




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Re: 65 More Door with Subaru/Porsche conversion project
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: July 15, 2017 02:53PM

I'm jealous! I plan on doing a Subaru 6cyl swap using the Subaru Gears 2wd collar and reversed ring and pinion. But I don't have the tools to do the fab work, nor the skills at this time. Happy to see this happening so I can plan it better!

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Roswell, GA.


1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe

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