My Spyder 150hp 1964, just 61 000 miles on it. But it burns a lot of oil. My first suspect was a turbo. Turbo is overhauled now by local Formula mechanic, who is turbo specialist. By his opinion this turbo was not culprit of loosing oil. It was dirty and do not spin at all.
Now after rebuild, it spin really easy, but it burn oil even more then before rebuild.
Before overhaul it take 1 quart to 200 miles. Now it take 1 quart to 60 miles !!!

Strange is, that engine works perfect. Starts good, has a lot of (and smooth) power. Do not have ANY leaks. Sounds really good.

Only time I has noted smoke (blue) is after driving steep uphill and park car right side up position immediately after. (never try, does it smoke when left side up), I think could it be connected with turbo out going oil pipe ? Oil just cant left the turbo because right side is up ?

If I remember correctly I has measured the compressions on last year and compressions was good and all near same.

Could it be still turbo burning oil on hot side (I am using 10w30 oil) ? My idea is that it burns more oil because pressure is higher then it was before overhauling. Could it be, that turbo work was not properly done. I do not know what part he change, but he was not order any new parts. Usually they make all parts in workshop. I just want to hear some oder opinions before I go back.

One more thing, when I has disconnect the muffler Y pipe, I has noted that left side pipe was dark black, and right side was more brown colour. I has explain this for myself with possibly leaking crossover pipe seal. Not sure.

How to identify what from oil disappear ?

If you still have the factory bronze valve guides I can almost guaranty you that they are well past shot. Mine were gone before 25K, you could rattle the exhaust valves in the guides. The intakes were still in good shape. The best thing to do is pull the valve cover and a few rockers and springs. If the exhaust valves rattle around, that's your answer. You will probably have a ton of blow by under boost and will find a dirty air cleaner and oil in the housing. I would almost never suggest guide knurling, but in the case of these particular guides it worked better than I expected, (FLAMES EXPECTED!!!) Another thing that I have seen work is to have bronze K-liners installed in the existing bronze guides. If you start replacing guides on Vair heads you may run into seat alignment issues. There will some guys here that will say you need all new guides and deep seats. That is the best, but $$$$$$ option. how much do you drive the car, how hard, how much money do you want to through at it. No you don't want guide seals on the exhaust valves.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

It could certainly be burning in the turbo. 1 quart every 60 miles is a lot. They will not be able to make the 'piston ring' seal that goes on the turbine shaft at a machine shop. This is the part that keeps oil out of the hot side of the turbo. Also if the center housing is not perfect where that seal rides it will leak. Also possible the oil return line from the turbo back to the cylinder head is plugged. That would cause oil to back up and burn in the turbo.

Nate Wolfe
Portland OR
65 Corsa 180

thewolfe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It could certainly be burning in the turbo. 1
> quart every 60 miles is a lot. They will not be
> able to make the 'piston ring' seal that goes on
> the turbine shaft at a machine shop. This is the
> part that keeps oil out of the hot side of the
> turbo. Also if the center housing is not perfect
> where that seal rides it will leak. Also possible
> the oil return line from the turbo back to the
> cylinder head is plugged. That would cause oil to
> back up and burn in the turbo.

Turbo return line is clean. But before rebuild I has bend this oil return pipe little down, so it has better angle for quicker oil flow. I noted that this has some effect to my oil consumption (before rebuild).

Is my theory correct, that reason for even bigger oil consumption after rebuild could be higher pressure in turbo cold side, if he not changed oil ring during rebuild?

Well if it is just rebuilt, it should still be fairly clean in the exhaust side if the turbo and if the pipe was recently off it should be easy to pull and inspect. You can't see the carbon seal, but you will see the results if its leaking.

If the turbo was not working and now you have boost and use it, a lot of oil can get past those guides with hot oil and high exhaust pressure in the system.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Look at the very bottom of the page.


Clark's Turbo Section

The piston ring seal offers almost no resistance to free spinning, that comes for the journal type bearing and carbon seal. Does the OP mean it spins really easy or turns really easy. Vair turbos do not spin with a finger flick, but they continue to turn somewhat.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

I has talk by phone with, mechanik who rebuild the turbo and he was absolute 100% sure, it is not turbo issue.
So my plan is look spark plugs colour first, and then look at valve guides and valve seals.
Hope I can find those intake valve seals here.

Plenty if of info on intake guide seals here, most are recommending the blue Viton. NO seals on exhaust, especially turbo. If the intake guides are bad and have bad seals, there will be a ton of crap behind the valve head. This really restricts the boost flow. If it a true 60K motor the iron intake guides may be OK or at least with in service limits. New seals will help this. Its the factory bronze guides that have a short life. Right now I am running all steel guides with NO seals on any guides. Many turbo owners choose to do this if you have tight guides. Its best to only loosen the bolts on one cylinder at a time. Keeps the head torqued. Some loosen all the lowers, I don't. Don't loosen the upper head bolts unless you plan on pulling the head. Good luck.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

""Hope I can find those intake valve seals here.""

Does this mean non USA? No sig line

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

He is in Estonia (EU).

Al
Georgia

J O, why does he need to loosen any of the head bolts (rocker studs)?

Spitfire, your exhaust pipe observation shows the oil is being burned in the left set of cylinders. This is because you said the left side was black (the driver's side).

Take off the left valve cover and check on what J O said.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

""J O, why does he need to loosen any of the head bolts (rocker studs)?""


My bad, I was thinking ahead in case he needed "O" rings, but he said it wasn't leaking.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Looks really bad: pull out 1 plug from each side, and they both look black as estonian night.
Under rocker cover everything looks so clean as done yesterday. So somebody was here before me.
I has try to rock the valves with the spring, but they does not move at all. Should they rock (if guides) are bad when rocker is on ?

Of course is possibility that here is only adjusted valves and not changed the stem seals, I cant see them thru spring.

They will be very hard to rock them with the springs in place. You have more than 100 lbs of spring pressure holding the valve against the seat.

[www.lowes.com]{ifdyn:dyn}&k_clickID=626796ef-b2e6-4528-bcd6-b6170e728b7d

I use this tool when the heads are still on the car, inexpensive and widely available. Whack the retainer with a deep socket and mallet first to break it loose. My heads always look that clean, but I have done 2K oil changes since new.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

If spark plugs look so black, does it mean that reason can be
1) valve stem seals
2) rings
3) or both of them but not turbo ?

I will do compression test tomorrow, but I am pretty sure, compression must be ok.

Black plugs can come from too rich a mixture as well as oil. They can be back in an engine that uses no or little oil. If the compression is good its most likely pointing to guides or turbo seals. If its too high there may be a lot of carbon in the combustion chamber. I don't know you skill level, but remember WOT throttle, wide open choke and all plugs out for compression test. There are other thing you can do like running and reving it with the oil filler cap removed. See if there is a lots of blow by.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Done the compression test:

6) 165 5) 160
4) 160 3) 155
2) 145 1) 150

Highest compression was in Cylinder number 6 and this spark plug has a lot of carb deposit. All oder Spark plugs looks more or less the same.

So all points to bad valve stem seals ?
I has order them and it take 2 week to get them here.

Do you have a mechanical oil pressure gauge , you can check to see if you have high oil pressure while your waiting for seals. Also and chance your oil smells strongly of petrol. DO NOT seals on exhaust valve guides. If the are bad only a guide repair will help.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

At finally I got my stem seals and tool KD2078 to replace the stem seals. The tool is super for this job.
So good news and bad news:
I has change all stem seals with head on, using the rope trick, valves has need some hammer hit to release the half moons, I hope my hammer was sensitive enough not to harm the valves. Old seals looks like plastic, I think they are originals, grey colour and have BAF58 markings on top (if I remember correctly), and number 1 and 6 cylinder looks worce. Valve guides looks good, I does not feel any play here.

But here are the bad news: when I adjust the valves on not running method, I realise that the head stud has mouve 1/8 turn with the rocker nut in "open" direction !!! So my head nuts was not properly torqued !!!
All works what are done on this car before me, seems done professionally. So I was really surprised that all lower row nuts wasnt properly torqued.

On left side (were I realised this problem) I has toequed first no 2, then 4, and then 6. I know, I did wrong, I should remouve all rockers and torque them equally all together, but at this point I didnt know they all are loose.
On right side I has remouve all rockers and torque all lower row equally until 25 Lb Fts. Basicly all bolts has same loose. I think I has torqued all bolts about 1-1,5 turns on.
Since the upper row looks untachable I just feel couple of uper row bolts and they feels OK. So I think somebody before me, has change the O-rings, and not torqued head correctly. So I hope fingers cross that I not breaking my heads.

I has not started it jet. Need new spark plugs and silicone, put the valve covers back.
I think in few days I can do the thest ride. Fingers cross so far.