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EFI from clarks
Posted by: viniuk ()
Date: May 18, 2017 11:16AM

Hi i am looking at swooping out my carbs on my 140 corsa due too small hair line crack in secondary​ carb float bowl I have been looking at the EFI system that clarks sell
Am after any advice on set up and is it worth the money being in the UK will also have shipping cost and duty

Vini Ryan Manchester UK
1965 Corvair Corsa

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: May 18, 2017 11:25AM

It's a good kit,,I am sure j3m will chime in and explain it to you.





Email me at: Dave Motohead

Sign my guest book!
[motoheadmall.com]
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: May 18, 2017 11:37AM

Vini,

A couple of people have installed this kit and liked it. The designer has gone to a lot of trouble testing it out and make it user friendly. I also believe that it comes with support to help you install it and get it running. I plan to get one and use it on one of our Corvair Ultravans.

Tony
(Ottawa Area - Canada)

(1) Marie's 1962 Convertible and our 1966 Ultravan #248 (aka Itchy Feet - Long Restoration)
(2) Our 1963 Rampside (Sold 2014) and 1967 Ultravan #256 at Upper Canada Valley car show in 2009.
(UV256 aak Itchy Feet II - corvair power plant came out 2012 - plans with donor for a GM 3.8L FWD conversion, as a gas pusher, in the back of UV256)
(3 & 4) Are some of our 11 Corvair parts cars - to help keep our stuff on the road - hopefully as long as we live. ;-)
(5) Is one of our Wayne 100 boats (Corvair powered)
(6) Nov 14, 2012 Ultravans #362 and #512 arrived. We are getting closer to our goal of having an Ultravan museum.
We now own; UV248, UV256, UV362, UV512, and UV520 will hopefully be here July 2013.
(7) I saved Ultravan #231 from the scarp yard this year. It arrived May 9, 2013 and I plan to flip this one with a mid-engine Subaru power plant.



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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: viniuk ()
Date: May 18, 2017 11:50AM

Thanks for the comments davemotohead , Ottawacorvairguy

Sounds like it could be the way forward for me hoping to get summer out of carb as crack not gone all the way through so when I am state side in September can get it shipped to hotel and bring it home in luggage.

Vini Ryan Manchester UK
1965 Corvair Corsa

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: moomba32 ()
Date: May 18, 2017 01:01PM

Many people remove the secondary carbs completely from a 140, some argue it's better without, may be an option for the summer at least.

Don Marlowe
66 Monza 2Dr 140/pg
64 Spyder convertible now, 110/pg
Eutawville SC

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: May 18, 2017 02:23PM

viniuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi i am looking at swooping out my carbs on my 140
> corsa due too small hair line crack in
> secondary​ carb float bowl I have been looking
> at the EFI system that clarks sell
> Am after any advice on set up

its a good kit.......but w/only 2 throttle body youll choke your 140 for air @ high rpm. heres some info.

if your not running your 140 hard.......youll wont notice this loss of power @ high rpm.

> and is it worth the money being in the UK will also have shipping cost
> and duty

cant say if its worth the money..........only you can know that.

it would be worth the money to replace your secondary carb w/the hair line crack & rebuild the carbs if they are worn out.

if your carb linkage is worn out.........most are now........it would be worth the money to replace it with some nice linkage.....like this.

efi is better than carbs.....thats a fact. but that doesnt mean that the carbs wont work good for you when they are rebuilt & working like the factory designed.

lots of vairs are running carbs & everything is fine.

how much will it cost to get the efi..........shipping & duty? how much will it cost to get a secondary carb & rebuild your carbs if they need it?

only you can say if its worth the cost because everyone has a different idea of what something is worth.

-Scott V.

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: May 18, 2017 04:25PM

Ray Sedman of American Pi sells an EZEFI kit that converts the lower section of the carbs to EFI. You can buy four of the units and have all four acting as primaries. With the EFI, you won't get too much or too little fuel. All EFI systems will want a lot more fuel pressure so factor in a new fuel pump and filter. As the name implies. this is an easy way to accomplish a high performance EFI system. Ray can talk you through everything you will need.

American PI EFI

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: Noel Felty ()
Date: May 18, 2017 05:57PM

>>>>>Many people remove the secondary carbs completely from a 140, some argue it's better without, may be an option for the summer at least.

Life is so boring after thatsmiling smiley Once you crack those secondaries its to much fun to ever turn back. I do have one secondary that has almost caused me to take a hammer to the whole car though. Love hate relationship really. J3M would be super pissed to know I drove 44 miles back and forth to work for the past 2 weeks. Hell I even had points in! I know, It's nuts what a lunatic I am. I do like Browns EFI though.

Noel Felty
Brevard, NC
1966 Corsa 140 Before

1966 Corsa After

1972 Ford f100

Corsa SC
NC Mountain Corvairs

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: vacorvairlover ()
Date: May 18, 2017 06:08PM

Greetings from the states, I plan on installing the kit from Clark's on my 140 auto since this will become my daily driver. If I get everything done before you return to the states your welcome to contact me and ask how it's doing, I've seen almost as hot a discussion on the topic of 140 with just the 2 TBs flowing not as much, the same, and more than all four carbs WOT as that of which motor oil is best haha. I'm going to guess that at worst you will not notice any difference in performance due to the perfect tune of both fuel to air and ignition even if it flows a bit less. But to me flawless starting and running everytime no matter the weather or temp of the engine and the lack of fiddling with carps, points, cap rotor, to me thats a pretty good selling point. Just my 2 cents worth.

John Garrison
Roanoke VA.
1964 corvair spyder convertable
1965 Corvair Monza 140 auto coupe soon to be my daily driver
2014 Ram 1500 5.7L Hemi
2011 Dodge Avenger 3.6L

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: didget69 ()
Date: May 18, 2017 07:33PM

..how often are you going to run the engine at WOT where the extra fueling volume of carbs would make any major difference?


bnc

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: Huntsville ()
Date: May 18, 2017 08:16PM

didget69 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..how often are you going to run the engine at WOT
> where the extra fueling volume of carbs would make
> any major difference?
>
>
> bnc

Every time you crank it up, of course!!! grinning smileysmoking smiley



Danny Robertson
Huntsville, Al
'64 Spyder (Daily Driver)
'63 Rampside (Rotisseried and in Progress!)

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: May 18, 2017 08:34PM

I will race my 140 with 4 carbs against a 140 w/2 carbs or with EFI on 2 ports and we will see who wins? 140 engines like to rev and run especially good with a good cam and all 4 carb ports, Why choke off the bigger heads with not enough flow at higher RPM? If I was going to do a 140 I would go with American PI set up as well, Better to have too much than not enough, if your not going to get full use out of a 140 get a 95 with A/C and 4 doors. smoking smiley





Email me at: Dave Motohead

Sign my guest book!
[motoheadmall.com]
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: j3m ()
Date: May 19, 2017 04:03AM

efi is better than carbs.....thats a fact

Contact Ted Brown the inventor/developer/builder& designer of the BROWN system.

(teddbrown) on this forum-corvaircenter

GOOGLE: Brown EFI, Ted Brown Corvair Fuel Injection, Corvair EFI designed and built by Ted Brown in Anderson South Carolina USA

You'll see Ted's site links and you'll see a bunch of YOUTUBE videos on his YOUTUBE channel...
....look at all of that and search prior "EFI" and "fuel injection" and similar topic threads here on this forum-corvaircenter and the other corvairforum too.
I'd recommend telephoning Ted and speaking to him.
ANDERSON (is part of the greater GREENVILLE/ANDERSON/SPARTANBURG South Carolina area in the Deep South just east of ATLANTA GEORGIA, just north of AUGUSTA GEORGIA where The Masters is held, north of Savannah Georgia, Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, northwest of CHARLESTON South Carolina, Isle of Palms South Carolina, mainly dead West and slightly north of Myrtle Beach South Carolina.
Anderson/Greenville/Spartanburg is just south of Asheville NC and Charlotte NC.
Just a thought: The South Carolina coast, particularly Isle of Palms which is connected to Charleston via bridges to Mount Pleasant/Sullivans Island-----and----
Hilton Head Island South Carolina which is nearer to SAVANNAH GA...........Hilton Head Island and Isle of Palms are two of the nicest oceanfront areas in the United States.....and they are in South Carolina!!! SC has beautiful coastal beaches......Myrtle Beach is "low rent trashy" in that a large majority of visitors are the Party Till Ya Puke early twenties crowd.......the population is huge there in Spring/Summer months, because it is a very nice area there and its like a redneck SC las vegas without the gambling and because there is so much there, price competition and airport make it dirt cheap inexpensive.....hence the youth...party till ya puke set that has always been the majority.
The Myrtle Beach area is still very nice, but combine bits from the movies: ANIMAL HOUSE, ROAD HOUSE, CADDY SHACK, and any vintage tv news footage of a massive traffic jam and thats Myrtle, very loud and obnoxious, young and crude in the Spring and Summer.
NORTH CAROLINA's beaches and the outer banks are some of the nicer ATLANTIC Ocean areas too. Lower keyed, and slower paced than Florida's beaches or South Carolina's beaches.
Hey.....vacation in the States and perhaps carry the stuff back to the UK in your bags...........meet the "rocket scientist",......ah....red-neck rocket scientist himself who took one small step for Ted but one GIANT LEAP for improving the Corvair automobile.....
........if that doesn't plan out, then perhaps hopefully convince the Brown gang to holiday in the UK....

Seriously, the shipping weight likely isn't very heavy but how the UK imposes the VAT and duties will certainly factor into the equation, I would assume but heck I don't know. CLARKS CORVAIR is one of the finest auto parts suppliers for any type of classic/vintage car, anywhere in the world. They have great people there and they have a superb reputation of customer service and satisfaction by delivering the complete & correct parts that one may have ordered from them.
They aren't the least expensive many times but they do try to be competitive and the parts that they do supply are all quality and assured to install and fit perfectly. That is something else to consider anytime when certain specific Corvair parts might need to be sourced. Sure the web or folks on this forum WILL HAVE many parts that you may need for your CORVAIRS at perhaps lower cost than from CLARKS, and that is fine, but keep CLARKS' Catalog and web link handy because they have nearly everthing and you may need something but you don't know what the hell it is....just looking at it and describing it, Mark or somebody at Clarks will know what it is and why....

Back to Ted's "Brown EFI and dis"
Motohead claims to be able to outrun such a simple throttle body set up with the factory four Rochesters. Yes that is likely true. Dave Motohead is like AJ Foyt in hands on tinkering and anything Corvair. What Motohead fails to mention is that his factory ROCHESTERS would fall very short of TED's BROWN EFI system in DAY to DAY Driving.......turn the key and drive it anywhere....
Try doing that with Dave's four carb set up or anyone's.... in the middle of winter or blazing hot summer.....try driving to the mountains, then to sea level, and try driving on the INTERSTATE from I-10 out west to I-20 in Atlanta before you change Interstate exit to another one to get to GREENVILLE SC(Anderson SC) to EFI Brown Town. Your factory carburetors will NOT HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF DRIVEABILITY QUALITY!! My bet is that the BROWN EFI system would outperform the best factory 4 carb set up at 80mph to 85 mph INTERSTATE traffic flow speeds.
You'll have flawless DRIVING whether you're in the West TEXAS nowhere land or in heavily populated areas like DALLAS/Ft Worth or HOUSTON's congested Interstates or ATLANTA GA's mini-talledega multi lane superspeedway Interstates.
No way on earth that any ROCHESTER Corvair carb'd car will match the 65mph to 90 mph highway driveability that any BROWN Corvair would have with the GM distributorless ignition and the Brown burned computer chip and the recycled GM throttle bodies from eighties era four cylinder cars.
Yes, Motohead could win in perhaps a 1/4 mile drag race on a drag strip, assuming Motohead had it set-up to function. The problem IS that the ORIGINAL FACTORY CARBURETOR set up IS NOT GOOD WHEN COMPARED TO MODERN ANYTHING.
GOOGLE: Popular Mechanics MAY 1965 Popular Mechanics was an American magazine with a huge readership in the fifties and sixties. The MAY 1965 issue has the OWNERS REPORT survey of owners of the brand new 1965 Corvairs.........YOU'LL SEE THAT CARBURETOR TROUBLE is a large Dislike. It was a brand new 1965 car, and not a fifty year old car with 50 year old carbs. Chevrolet had from Sept 1959 to Sept 1964 to IMPROVE THE CARB SET UP and FAILED to. Sure, there were slight improvements to carbs each year, as motohead and others will tell ya. Still by late 1964 when the 2nd generation Corvair was introduced, you still had POS low quality engineering with respect to the carbs.....yeah the 1965/1966 Rochester HV carbs are more desireable, slightly improved over the earlier versions but still overall they were still pieces of S---. Yes, GM low priced economy cars of the sixties were all poorly built and engineering execution was completely bottom of the barrel. Most American cars of that era, were poorly built. The plan was that you'd trade in your worn out hunk of junk in two or three years anyway, so the concept of engineering quality into a small or budget priced vehicle was largely overlooked at that time by GM, and Ford, and Chrysler, with very few exceptions.

Heck, YOU COULD NEARLY DUPLICATE Ted's system with LOCAL MARKET (UK sourced) parts from the breaking yards and the jobbers.
Ted's design work on it and the many years and 100,000 miles plus of testing/development of the custom CHIP is something else.


The real proof of the BROWN system's quality is that so many naysayers said it couldn't be done.........Yet he did it..........
........most folks on this forum and everywhere in the Corvair community said if he can make an EFI system that it will be too complicated and hard to set-up and install, and wouldn't possibly work as well as a simple factory carb set up, because GM engineering tried fuel injection on the Corvair and it was deemed much worse than the carbs so it was never implemented into any Corvair sold to the public, only test mules. There was/is a large contingent of CORVAIR community who strongly believes that GENERAL MOTORS engineering's original equipment design of the Corvair was perfect and could not be improved upon.
As you could guess, many were from the segment that originally purchased these "junkmobiles" brand new in late 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966...etc and they were more than Okay with substandard quality.
Most Corvair folks said if GM couldn't get fuel injection to work, with its army of the best educated, best trained engineers....ain't nobody else gonna succeed at doing it. If they do get a functioning set-up, it will COST a fortune, will be as complicated as the dang Space Shuttle or a Boeing 747, and probably you'll need to have worked for NASA as rocket engineer to install it and get the damn thing to work as well as the dang factory carbs.
Yeah, thats what folks probably thought and said.
Were not talking about 1986, the majority of folks were saying this in 2008/2009/2010 years after Ted had already been driving his '68 with EFI.

One small step for Ted, ONE GIANT LEAP FOR CORVAIR RELIABILITY!
Mr Brown doesn't have any frown driving around.
He may also be one of the folks who has logged the most miles driving his CORVAIR during the past ten years.
Ask him during that time, after all of those miles driven, about how many Tow Truck Calls, or problems with driveability or starting or vapor lock, or pinging .......................probably none!

You Can't Beat Them, So You Gotta join Them.........THE QUESTION TO ASK IS: HOW MANY FOLKS WOULD PREFER GOING BACK TO THEIR CARBS, AFTER GOING BROWN? This would explain why you don't see any FOR SALE: Used Brown(CLARKS)EFI kit,...installed it but did not like it, email or call (212)453-xxxx. You see nothing negative on any of the Corvair forums, or various Corvair club newsletters. CORVAIR folks aren't shy about offering up advice on when some product or gadget or gizmo or kit is half-baked and not sorted out or doesn't function well or just is not worth the money. Be sure to ask Ted and CLARKS both , just how many folks returned their BROWN system or expressed displeasure in their Brown system. Ask them also how many folks hated their Brown system and returned to carbs. EFI / dis from BROWN there is NO ACCEPTABLE SUBSTITUTE in the form of carbs!!! The most perfect carb set up won't match the BROWN (Clarks) EFI kit. It is so simple.
Perhaps for all out maximum performance, there are other EFI options, but it would seem that the simple BROWN system is a really good design.
(it's all old GM recycled/parts bin parts comingled and recommisioned for duty and reprogrammed by the Computer whiz and Corvair Improvement person in upstate South Carolina)
He did what they said couldn't be done......east bound and down EFI Corvairs are rolling.
More Importantly he changed the minds of a large number of Corvair folks who have seen the Brown system and have seen Ted in-person answer questions about it.

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: wv-geo ()
Date: May 19, 2017 06:27AM

I don't want to take a sale from Tedd, but there might be an alternative.

How about a FiTech TBI on a 4Bbl 140 intake?

A company that sells aircooled VW stuff is taking the FiTech system and reprogramming it to run on anything from 90HP NA to 600HP Turbo.

[www.lowbugget.com]
Their NA kit costs $1400.

You might be able to purchase the 400HP unit from FiTech (~$800 + fuel plumbing) and bolt it to the 4Bbl intake without reprogramming.

This would allow you to use all of the intake ports, and the fuel atomization from the injectors may reduce the throttle lag and runner freezing that the 4Bbl intake with a carb is notorious for.

So, you have three system to consider:

Clarks - A proven system. Tedd mentioned in another post that he is working on a system specifically for the 140

American Pi - A proven system that would give the 140 back its Oomph.

FiTech - Currently an unproven system for the 140, but has potential.


Just my thoughts.

Dan Stark
Hurricane, WV

1961 Lakewood 500, 80HP, PG
1964 Corvair 500 Coupe, 140HP, 4spd (Christine)
1965 Mustang Coupe, 6cyl, 3spd

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: May 19, 2017 07:13AM

wv-geo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This would allow you to use all of the intake
> ports, and the fuel atomization from the injectors
> may reduce the throttle lag and runner freezing
> that the 4Bbl intake with a carb is notorious
> for.

w/the TBI on a 4Bbl 140 intake youll have the same runner freezing that the 4Bbl intake with a carb is notorious for.

-Scott V.

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: Chilly Willy ()
Date: May 19, 2017 07:42AM

Fitech is a consideration for my turbo build. I don't drive our convertible when it's cold 😉



Will
Northern California

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: May 19, 2017 07:46AM

j3m wanna race? Oh Ya, you don't have a corvair smoking smiley





Email me at: Dave Motohead

Sign my guest book!
[motoheadmall.com]
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: moomba32 ()
Date: May 19, 2017 08:11AM

davemotohead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> j3m wanna race? Oh Ya, you don't have a corvair
> smoking smiley

You knew you would get a response with that.

Don Marlowe
66 Monza 2Dr 140/pg
64 Spyder convertible now, 110/pg
Eutawville SC

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: rowin4 ()
Date: May 19, 2017 08:39AM

It is proven that EFI will not make your engine run any faster. But it will improve the starting, smoother idle, just like a modern car. I believe that the carbs on the corvair were it's downfall. Just look how many post on this site are about problems with the carbs. The old flathead fords that I used to drive never had to do a carb adjustment, just start and go, not to fast but never had to worry about the carb. I know I'll get flak about the corvair carb being so good . Not all of us are DAVEMOTOHEADS that have the knowledge to do the special tweeks to make them somewhat reliable. Yes EFI is not the future, it's been around at least 30 years. There's nothing wrong with living in the passed but there's also looking for better ways to solve your problems. flame on gents.

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Re: EFI from clarks
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: May 19, 2017 08:48AM

Great topic and responses.

J3M, are you sure you don't have anything to add? grinning smiley

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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