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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: December 24, 2017 09:33AM

v8vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of Flow Bench is that ? We use a
> Superflow SF 600
Lenny Caverly of Engine Master Challenge fame built his own bench and bought software.
We also have a SF 600 avail to us.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 24, 2017 10:13AM

ral1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My thoughts and opinions...
>
> A performance engine is a system...just swapping
> the tribute heads with a set of stock 140 heads on
> a stock engine wont show their true improvement.
============================================================

So true!

Here's Chandler Bishops' basically stock EX "Turbo engine" [cam? ] 2 carbs... with a Stinger Dist. set for 140 specs and a single peashooter exhaust pipe and 2" muffler.

Great Aircraft combination! BUT he says in the car.... Engine pulls strong at lower rpm and Accelerates considerably better as well.





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2018 06:05PM by MattNall.

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: December 24, 2017 11:39AM

Maybe the NECC will have the drag races again so we can see how all the combos stack up.

Lee J

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: December 24, 2017 01:52PM

Is that on Dynojet's accelerometer or their actual Dyno? I didn't even realize they made anything but accelerometers until I looked it up.

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 24, 2017 02:50PM

Joel... Contact Chandler... how would we know? G





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: December 24, 2017 02:59PM

With an accelerometer you have to run it at full throttle through the gears and the machine calculates the power based on how fast it can accelerate the roller. A dyno can actually load the engine at any specific RPM to directly measure output.

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: December 24, 2017 03:17PM

Right.. but as I said ask Chandler!!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: December 24, 2017 03:21PM

Sorry Matt, I assumed the chart came from the OP and didn't notice it was you responding.
We all know what assuming gets you...

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: January 28, 2018 11:50AM

Update:
Working on stock 140 heads
I had a custom cam ground by Crowler around stock 140 airflow and my desired CR.
The Tribute heads seem to be on par with 140 headflow.
CR will be close from one head to another.
I am going higher than stock on CR but running 91 to 93 pump gas.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: January 28, 2018 01:50PM

That was on a Dynojet Chassis Dyno. The distributor is set as it comes which from my research is very similar to a 110 curve. I set the base timing at 19° BTDC. It is a turbo block, but I don't know if it has the turbo cam. The crank did not have the ampersand mark so it looks like the crank was changed and it's possible the cam was changed as well (turbo cranks were nitrided right?)

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Powder Springs, GA.



1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2018 01:51PM by Pacerace.

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: January 28, 2018 02:46PM

Well now I know where the wheels off my Trans Am are! ...haha!

I'm going to be testing on an engine dyno first... how did you make out on chassis?

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: January 28, 2018 04:06PM

Shaker455 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well now I know where the wheels off my Trans Am
> are! ...haha!
>
> I'm going to be testing on an engine dyno first...
> how did you make out on chassis?

Pontiac wheel look great on LMs!

This run was the chart Matt posted earlier. 90hp 131ft-lbs at the wheels. These are Tom's basic big valve heads. I would expect more out of the Tribute heads!

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Powder Springs, GA.



1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 28, 2018 04:20PM

Chandler... but you / dynoman didn't do any tuning and make other passes?

I think you had too much timing advance and we don't know what cam you have... and just a peashooter single exhaust... right?








MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: January 28, 2018 05:01PM

Correct, it was a Dyno day where they run multiple cars so no time for playing. I was recently considering moving the timing up and down to see how it feels. I set the 19° based on Tom's recommendations. We did 3 runs, they were fairly consistent.

I will take suggestions on timing as I'm new to all of that. I should still have the extra springs and spacers that Seth sends with the dizzy to play around with the curves, but I don't really know where to start other than just playing around, but funds are too tight now to pay for the Dyno time to play around. I do plan on opening up the intake/exhaust some when the funds allow it. I would like to get a set of headers and build a 6-2-1 equal length exhaust without going too big so as to hurt the bottom end torque. That stock crossover pinches down way small where the pipes come together.

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Powder Springs, GA.



1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 28, 2018 05:13PM

Chandler... it's not initial timing.... you set that for easy starts and smoothest idle.. ONLY!

Disconnect the VA while you experiment.... for days / weeks if needed...

VA only comes in at Cruise....

Do you have access to a Distributor machine or a "Dial Back" timing light?

When I worked with a few Vair engines on a dyno.. in the early 70's... we always started at 30 Degrees TOTAL ADVANCE at the pulley... at 3000 or 2500 rpm


Do this and drive it for a FEW DAYS!! not just around the block..

AND when ever you change any "system" you get to start over!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: January 28, 2018 05:26PM

And keep very detailed notes of every change you make. Try to find a several mile long route of city/highway speeds and use that for each change you make once or twice plus of course all of your normal driving routes.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: January 28, 2018 05:30PM

Pacerace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shaker455 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well now I know where the wheels off my Trans
> Am
> > are! ...haha!
> >
> > I'm going to be testing on an engine dyno
> first...
> > how did you make out on chassis?
>
> Pontiac wheel look great on LMs!
>
> This run was the chart Matt posted earlier. 90hp
> 131ft-lbs at the wheels. These are Tom's basic big
> valve heads. I would expect more out of the
> Tribute heads!

Very cool!
I'll be running mine on a engine dyno with headers and no factory fan.
Going to use remote fans to cool motor as time is short and need easy quick access to the heads to swap while on the dyno.
We do not have time to be bolting on & off the sheet metal.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 28, 2018 06:09PM

Jeff..that's the way to do it.... Faster head warmup as well...

Try to get the heads over 400f and see what the TQ. does





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: caroseiii ()
Date: January 28, 2018 06:24PM

Sounds good to me, getting 90hp net on a turbo block engine without the turbo. Its actually better than stock as it is a NET measurement. Net for a 80hp is 65hp and 118ftlbs torque. Most Corvairs advertise about 130 ftlbs of gross torque with any of the stock cams. So 12ftlbs net improvement is good.

Crawford Rose

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