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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: April 21, 2017 10:18PM

davemotohead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> zarfnober Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > I believe 1 tooth is equal to 14 degrees.
> >
> > Rocco
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> I seem to remember 1 tooth being 7 degrees,

need to say if its crank or cam degrees. 7 or 14....both can be right if 1 tooth off & talking crank or cam degrees.

-Scott V.

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Mike Stillwell ()
Date: April 22, 2017 03:41AM

How much adjustment is available with the Sedman adjustable gear?

Mike
YS-117

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: martyscarr ()
Date: April 22, 2017 03:51AM

Mike Stillwell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How much adjustment is available with the Sedman
> adjustable gear?


From Ray's website [american-pi.com]

Notes and Details: The gear has a twenty four (24) degree adjustment range. When the cam is installed 'straight up' you can advance or retard your cam timing twelve degrees in either direction. Or you can bias the adjustment range to favor more shift in the advance or retard range. A reference scale marked on the gear allows easy, precision adjustments to your cam timing.

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: tknobby ()
Date: April 22, 2017 05:06AM

Looks like Jeff's thread has gotten pulled off line.

Back to the topic; these heads started life as 62 or 63 102 heads. These are the prototype Tribute heads I'm making now. During the design I found that since the intake guide is at a greater angle the seat too lives at this new angle. But I noticed on these heads I needed to add some filler weld to 2 areas around the new seat location so the seat doesn't stick up above the chamber floor. I didn't realize this until after I machined these for the intake seats. So the intake seats are lower than I like. Longer pushrods will fix this issue on these heads. All later heads have the filler added so the seats sit at the correct height.

The valve sizes are stock 140 sizes, the ports blended to match the new seat ID's. I added a second carb mounting pad in the same location as the 140 heads. This way a guy could run a stock 140 carb system and the linkage will work. I also machined the heads for installing 140 exhaust tubes. The original Bill Thomas competition heads have carb pads mounted closer together and and the exhaust have 1 3/8" angle ports but I wanted to make these more user friendly for current guys. Not everybody wants headers.

Intake flow numbers are the same as a stock 140 head. The real difference is in the port cross section. With these being smaller the torque curve will be different than on a 140 headed engine. Jeff will reveal this via his dyno work.

T...

Tom Knoblauch
San Antonio, TX
AmericanFlat6.com

'64 Spyder Vert Big Valve heads EFI Custom roller cam front disc brakes on 2" drop spindles
'65 Vert 95 EFI 4spd
'65 Monza Coupe 95 w/ Thomas Tribute 110 heads 2 2bbl 40MM Webers 140 exh tubes and logs PG w/ high stall Converter
'66 Monza Coupe 3.0L EFI 4spd
'68 Monza Coupe 140 3.0L EFI Slide Throttle 4spd

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: April 22, 2017 06:32AM

Scott V Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> davemotohead Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > zarfnober Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > I believe 1 tooth is equal to 14 degrees.
> > >
> > > Rocco
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > I seem to remember 1 tooth being 7 degrees,
>
> need to say if its crank or cam degrees. 7 or
> 14....both can be right if 1 tooth off & talking
> crank or cam degrees.
>
> -Scott V.

I was talking cam degrees and from what I recall it was off 16 degrees. I had to move it 2 teeth and then use a 2 degree offset key to get it dead on. That cam was bought about 3 years ago at this point.
I dread the thought of someone installing that cam without degreeing it.

Lee J

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Mike Stillwell ()
Date: April 22, 2017 08:00AM

Thanks for clearing that up. I've always been a fan of Ray's products as I have several of them on my cars. Too bad he's not here on the forum a well. Sorry for the thread drift, please carry on.

Mike
YS-117

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: April 22, 2017 12:26PM

My first step is to compare head flow between stock 140 & then Tom's Tribute heads on a flow bench and take my own actual readings.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 22, 2017 12:33PM

This is going to be fun to watch!!

Will you run a baseline with stock heads first and then swap in the BTT's?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: April 22, 2017 12:41PM

I'm thinking now that Tom wants me to wideband his Webers live in my car after the engine dyno so if that's the case my 140's will be on first.
Also, there is a chasis dyno not 5 miles from my house that I have tuned muscle cars on even though they are Inport guys.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 22, 2017 12:51PM

Great!!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: April 22, 2017 02:28PM

Subscribing

Lee J

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: jhoncho4xr ()
Date: June 05, 2017 10:49PM

Any progress?

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: June 09, 2017 04:17PM

Just an update.
Slight change in direction but same end results.

I'm assembling the motor with Tom's Tribute parts and doing the cam break in with my factory carbs that are already tuned.

Then motor is going in the car where I can dial in the Webers with my O2 wideband.

At the end of the season pulling motor then onto dyno for testing.
Then my own parts will go on to see the difference.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: kdrolt ()
Date: December 23, 2017 06:04PM

Subscribed. Any update Jeff? Ken in MA & NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: December 23, 2017 07:28PM

I'm currently going thru my case and installing custom ground cam.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: December 23, 2017 07:37PM

Are you going to run the engine with a set of stock 140 heads and then swap to Toms heads and do a real world everything is the same test?





Email me at: Dave Motohead

1960 4dr sedan caveman car
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1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
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1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)




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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: December 24, 2017 04:48AM

What kind of Flow Bench is that ? We use a Superflow SF 600

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: ral1963 ()
Date: December 24, 2017 06:12AM

My thoughts and opinions...

A performance engine is a system...just swapping the tribute heads with a set of stock 140 heads on a stock engine wont show their true improvement.

You need to bring the intake and exhaust up to where the stock 140 heads are the "restriction" and then do a comp by swapping them out and seeing the impact is...

or...fully prepping an engine with every performance trick in the book with the heads, dyno it and then put on bone stock 140 heads and see what the "loss" is with the stock heads.

Rick Loving
Corvair historian & chronicler of useless facts
CORSA
Performance Corvair Group
Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts

RAL1963@COMCAST.NET
Just south of Chicago IL

Current Rides
63 Sprint Vert 140/4sp

Past Rides
66 Turbo Coupe 180/4sp
60 700 Sedan 80hp PG
63 Monza Vert 102hp 4 spd
63 Monza Coupe 140hp 4 spd
63 700 Sedan 80hp 3 spd
64 Monza Vert 110hp 4 spd
64 Monza Coupe 95hp 3 spd
64 Monza Sedan 110hp PG
65 500 Coupe 95hp 4 spd
65 Monza Coupe 110hp PG
65 Corsa Coupe 140hp 4 spd
68 Monza Vert 140hp 3 spd

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: December 24, 2017 09:27AM

ral1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My thoughts and opinions...
>
> A performance engine is a system...just swapping
> the tribute heads with a set of stock 140 heads on
> a stock engine wont show their true improvement.
>
> You need to bring the intake and exhaust up to
> where the stock 140 heads are the "restriction"
> and then do a comp by swapping them out and seeing
> the impact is...
>
> or...fully prepping an engine with every
> performance trick in the book with the heads, dyno
> it and then put on bone stock 140 heads and see
> what the "loss" is with the stock heads.

Rick, if you read the rest of this post you will see not a stock set up.

Thanks

Jeff
Granite State NH

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Re: Dyno Testing Tom Knoblauch's "Bill Thomas Tribute" Top end kit
Posted by: Shaker455 ()
Date: December 24, 2017 09:30AM

davemotohead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you going to run the engine with a set of
> stock 140 heads and then swap to Toms heads and do
> a real world everything is the same test?

Yes will dyno & real world test.
I will also spend next driving season modifying and tuning Tom's top end hardware namely the weber carbs via realtime wideband tuning.

Jeff
Granite State NH

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