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Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: Boo Sparx ()
Date: April 20, 2017 03:21PM

Hey Vair Buds ! !

Thanks for helping me out with some great answers this past week to my front bushing and control arms noises/issues.

Here is my new question - has anybody else reduced the size of the front coil/spring ?! I've read that if you take off 1 loop / ring from the coil(s)
you will see a marked difference in your handling ? I plan on going to a slightly wider/low profile tire then the stock I have on now. Any knowledge base on this you can share ? Have you done it and it was a bad idea (bottom out on speed bumps) or can you recommend the amount of coil to take off ? how much . . or how little ?

Please give me some feedback on this . . I'm a little nervous to mess with the geometry of this.

Thanks !

Boo

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: jcorvair ()
Date: April 20, 2017 03:57PM

There was a recent thread on this topic. I believe most people cut one coil off.

James
Maple Ridge, BC

1965 Monza Coupe 140/4spd, Factory '66 headrests, rear antenna
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Turbo
2013 Hyundai Elantra (daughter's future car)
2009 Silverado HD Crew Cab 4x4 (for haulin cars, trailers, fifth wheels, quads, etc.)
2013 Victory Car Hauler (enclosed)
2015 Polaris 570 EPS
2016 Polaris 570 SP

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: SteveH ()
Date: April 20, 2017 04:11PM

yep, this is one coil cut on my 65
205/60-15's on Crager S/S 15x7" rins

Loving it, no speed bump issues yet.

CORSA Member #034095
SF Bay Area zip:94580

1965 Corvair Corsa "Field Find" 140hp 4speed
Built 9/15/64 #148 off the LOS line, #1448 for the year
1965 Corvair Corsa "Corsamatic" 140hp PG

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: April 20, 2017 05:10PM

There is only one proper way to lower the front coils!hot smiley

Corventure Dave

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 20, 2017 05:25PM

And if you go too low.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2017 05:40PM by MattNall.

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: April 20, 2017 05:39PM

corventure Dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is only one proper way to lower the front
> coils!hot smiley
>
> Corventure Dave

Good one Dave - Send that to motohead for his "Things I find wrong on Corvairs" book I waiting for him to do.

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: Boo Sparx ()
Date: April 20, 2017 06:22PM

Nice look on that red beauty ! !

Wow . . those pipe locks would keep me white knuckling at any speed over "stopped" !
Thoughts on how to cut them . . ? Hacksaw . .? Torch . . ? Take to a shop ?

Thanks for the info . .

Much appreciated.

Boo

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 20, 2017 06:25PM

Most use a Torch so they can re-form the end...

But others have just cut the bottom coil in the car with a dremel.... then pulled it out..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..................................PG........................................................Turbo

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: April 20, 2017 07:23PM

I have cut one coil off on many vairs. I eventually decided I didn't like it on my daily drivers. Ride got noticeably harsher. That's the nice thing though, if you dont like it, You can always swap back to originals.

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: jmaechtlen ()
Date: April 20, 2017 10:44PM

Yeah, we tend to forget - if you cut a coil, the remaining wire (coil) is shorter - hence it is stiffer.
In theory, we could have springs re-heat treated to a slightly shorter free length. That would drop the ride height while keeping the spring rate identical.

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 20, 2017 10:56PM

But you must remember we are usually dealing with 50 year old springs.... that have softened...


Those that buy new springs and then cut, hopefully get what they desired...





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..................................PG........................................................Turbo

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: moomba32 ()
Date: April 21, 2017 05:49AM

I used a 4-1/2 inch side grinder with a thin cutoff wheel, cuts through in about 20 seconds.

Don Marlowe
66 Monza 2Dr 140/pg
64 Spyder convertible now, 110/pg
Eutawville SC

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: flamingchariots ()
Date: April 21, 2017 06:07AM

Since opinions are free, I say don't cut them. If you want, you could try new rear springs (regular duty), which would raise the back end.

Too low is a no-go. winking smiley

Kevin
Medina, OH

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: April 21, 2017 03:36PM

I have an old set of both front and rear coils from a LM. If you want to try them, they will go cheap! Not sure if worth the shipping.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: MonzaDave ()
Date: April 22, 2017 07:04AM

flamingchariots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since opinions are free, I say don't cut them. If
> you want, you could try new rear springs (regular
> duty), which would raise the back end.
>
> Too low is a no-go. winking smiley

I agree. My '65 has the HD springs which are shorter. I like the stance and the handling is great.

Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: jmaechtlen ()
Date: April 22, 2017 03:17PM

The "softening" of old springs - my suspicions:

1) rust can make the effective wire diameter less - that would cause lower ride height.

2) sag/set - if the spring sags, absent significant thinning due to rust, it would probably be due to creep in the outer region of the wire. (maybe .040-.100 from the surface?)
This would leave a residual stress in the spring if you pulled it out of the car- it would be shorter than an un-sagged spring.

Failing either of those scenarios, it should behave pretty much like new. I don't see how the carbon or other ingredients could crawl out of the steel.

In either case, clamp it to a new free height and heat treat it like a new spring, and it would essentially be a new spring. Seems to me that the heat treating would bring it back to proper crystal structure and strength properties.

but, I've been wrong before...

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: Boo Sparx ()
Date: April 23, 2017 07:38AM

Thanks for all the great advice on my Upper Control arm bushing job.

I did the drivers side yesterday and it had it's moments but overall successful.

I used a 6 Ton press and it worked fine BUT the press is smaller and sits on a bench (not free standing) I did not want to store a free standing press in my garage due to space issues. It got the bushing started and seated nice BUT due to the size of the arm and how space constraints of a smaller press I had to seat the rest of the bushing using a socket and a heavy hammer. Thanks for the advice to get the Clarks Tool / Spacer for the arm to keeping it from collapsing . . it saved the day ! Only issue I had was I pressed both bushings into the arm no problem . . but when I went to put it back on the arm . . there was no way to get it back over the anchor that holds it on. I should have thought about this . . but since I got it off with out taking the two bolt anchor that keeps the arm on . . I thought I could leave it on and get it back on after I press the bushings. Needless to say . .with NEW bushings . . that was not going to happen.

I had to take the anchor off (don't know what its called) and back one of the bushings out and repress with anchor in between the bushings. But I did and it was no problem. Got it back in the car and it works fine. I will do the other side in a day or two . .

Is the lower arm bushing harder to do ? I might have to do them as well . . wanted to see if I could get ride of the god awful sound of worn bushings with just replacing the uppers first. I got the tool from Clarks to retain the spring . . but I'm not crazy about messing with it . . seems like a number of people have taken a spring to the face on numerous occasions !

Thanks again for all the great advice ! !

Boo

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Re: Front suspension coil reduction - '65 Monza
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: April 23, 2017 04:44PM

Nate Wolf is building my competition front end using Jonny Joints and lots of other cool stuff. I am going to install the Clarks HD springs but cut. Nates car was the same springs cut 1 coil in the front and 1-1/4 in the rear. His car sits very nicely and is really stiff. Good for competition but still Stock classes. I'll take pictures once mine is on the ground again. Maybe Nate will post a picture of his car. It's a good benchmark. He will have to give the tire sizes too since that affects the ride height.

For what it's worth, Many years back I sold parts to a spring company here in Portland. Spring steel is a very unusual metal, more voodoo there. Springs will degrade after a number of cycles (up and down). They just lose their memory. It takes a long time, like decades, but it happens to all coil springs. Anyone remember the 50's T-Bird? They had massive springs in the front for the big engine but the rear springs sagged badly after about 10 years. Looked really bad and functioned worse.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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