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Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: April 16, 2017 05:02AM

I recently inspected a Racing Corvair transmission that has been run with Redline Lightweight Shock Proof 75w90. A very Fast Car and this is the only gear oil its ever seen. No noticeable wear on the brass rings and every gear looks like new.Shifts excellent. Go figure?

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: April 16, 2017 05:36AM

They are using a very high dosage of calcium sulfonate with a good amount of phosphorous and fair amount of Moly (all three of these are polar).

I don't see any analysis of sulfur content, but I'd guess it is low, depending on the calcium sulfonate to carry the load with the help of the moly.

Calcium sulfonate (used in motor oil as well, but a lower level, more as a detergent, is an excellent EP agent (but expensive). It carries loads similar to the GL-4+ oils that use a Magnesium compound.

So as long as it shifts well (breaking the Calcium/moly bonds), There should not be a problem.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: April 16, 2017 12:49PM

V8vair - Was this isolated to only the transmission, or was it used for both the transmission and differential?

Richard - would it be suitable for the Corvair ring and pinion?

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: Melb-Mike ()
Date: April 16, 2017 06:26PM

In my opinion, Red Line is the best gear oil in the universe. My Lotus Super 7 with a Ford T5 4-speed transmission was almost impossible to shift. It has brass synchros but I had no idea what the PO used in the gear box. After reading up on the T5 tranny, many guys recommended RedLine GL4. I got some, put it in the gear box after sucking out the old stuff and suddenly, WOW, shift with one finger. Like a brand new gear box. I race the Lotus in SCCA SEDIV TT events, and it has never missed a lick.

I put the same oil in my 66 Corsa and although the 1-2 synchro us shot, overall tranny gear shifts are greatly improved. This stuff is good.

64 Greenbrier
64 Spyder (needs restoration)
65 Corsa 140, restored
66 Corsa turbo, restoring now
66 Corsa 140 "RR" code coupe fully restored
67 Pontiac GTO restored
69 Corvette 427 convertible restored
2004 Caterham R400 (Lotus super7)my race car
2015 Porsche Panamera S
2015 Corvette Z06
1965 AC Cobra (Factory Five)

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: stiffneck ()
Date: April 16, 2017 06:47PM

So hey.... in another thread I was told NOT to use the Red Line GL4 in my 64 corvair trans/diff.

I used the Red Line MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil in the trans/diff. I used this product because I thought you were supposed to use GL4 and all the reviews were 5 star on the product.

The noise I had in the trans/diff is all but gone now and it seems like the stuff works pretty well.

Should I be using a different gear oil though? I am new to corvairs...

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 16, 2017 07:44PM

You are fine... leave it alone now..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: April 16, 2017 07:59PM

Melb-Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion, Red Line is the best gear oil in
> the universe. My Lotus Super 7 with a Ford T5
> 4-speed transmission was almost impossible to
> shift. It has brass synchros but I had no idea
> what the PO used in the gear box. After reading
> up on the T5 tranny, many guys recommended RedLine
> GL4. I got some, put it in the gear box after
> sucking out the old stuff and suddenly, WOW, shift
> with one finger. Like a brand new gear box. I
> race the Lotus in SCCA SEDIV TT events, and it has
> never missed a lick.
>
> I put the same oil in my 66 Corsa and although the
> 1-2 synchro us shot, overall tranny gear shifts
> are greatly improved. This stuff is good.


Mike,
Having been around BW/Tremec T5 transmissions there is a lot of misinformation out there as to the type of oil they should have. GM and Ford both specified ATF. First versions used brass blocker rings and later versions used paper lined powdered metal blockers. Both used Mercon/Dexron II. Later versions specified Mercon/Dexron III when the II went obsolete. But if you had a hard time shifting it was because gear oil is too thick for the T5. They have lube passages as well under the main shaft gears.

Lee J
Southern New Jersey near Philly.
1966 Corsa 180/4 speed
1969 Monza convertible 140/4 speed

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Date: April 17, 2017 07:17AM

stiffneck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So hey.... in another thread I was told NOT to use
> the Red Line GL4 in my 64 corvair trans/diff.
>
> I used the Red Line MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil in
> the trans/diff. I used this product because I
> thought you were supposed to use GL4 and all the
> reviews were 5 star on the product.
>
> The noise I had in the trans/diff is all but gone
> now and it seems like the stuff works pretty well.
>
>
> Should I be using a different gear oil though? I
> am new to corvairs...
--------------------+++++++++++++++++++------------------
The advice to NOT use the RedLine MT-90 was correct.
The Redline Website for that product says
"NOT for use with hypoid gears" - the Corvair axle/differential DOES use hypoid gears which require extreme pressure additives

Based on what Richard1 above is saying, you should drain and clean the transaxle and re-fill with the RedLine Lightweight ShockProof mentioned above, if RedLine is your choice of Gear Lube manufacturer.
Richard's white paper on Gear Lube for the Corvair suggests that a synthetic is the best base and specifically mentions Amsoil MTG synthetic gear oil for the Corvair Transaxle.
I'm using it in my Corvairs.


Dan Davis - Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ 65 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn (my current driver!!)
~ 1964 Monza 'Vert ~ 65 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black int ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4
1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: Demon-Xanth ()
Date: April 17, 2017 07:31AM

Melb-Mike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion, Red Line is the best gear oil in
> the universe. My Lotus Super 7 with a Ford T5
> 4-speed transmission was almost impossible to
> shift. It has brass synchros but I had no idea
> what the PO used in the gear box. After reading
> up on the T5 tranny, many guys recommended RedLine
> GL4. I got some, put it in the gear box after
> sucking out the old stuff and suddenly, WOW, shift
> with one finger. Like a brand new gear box. I
> race the Lotus in SCCA SEDIV TT events, and it has
> never missed a lick.
>
> I put the same oil in my 66 Corsa and although the
> 1-2 synchro us shot, overall tranny gear shifts
> are greatly improved. This stuff is good.

Transmissions can be picky. The NV3500 in my Dakota didn't like Redline at all but worked well with Royal Purple Synchromax. People with other cars reported the exact reverse. My trans has been doing well with Stalube, only shifting issues have been due to a now-tweaked shift rod.

'61 Monza 900, 3 speed. Roams the streets of soon to be Stafford, Va
Cars need to drive to be alive. One that never leaves the garage may be perfect, but dead.

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: April 17, 2017 09:43AM

Even though the Red Line MT90 says it's a GL-4 they also say "MTL, MT-85 & MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears"

Frankly these "boutique" oil companies make a lot of claims and you have to read the fine print or you end up making improper assumptions.

The Lightweight ShockProof says "For racing differentials under moderate loads" and then says "MTL, MT-85 & MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears" on the same sheet???? Care to clarify Righard.

One thing about the Corvair transaxle - you MUST use a lube compatible with BOTH the transmission AND the differential.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 09:50AM by 66vairman.

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: stiffneck ()
Date: April 17, 2017 09:57AM

hahahaha

Very funny guy's. Let's confuse the new guy.

Whatever the case it's shifting and sounding pretty darn nice.

You use just one kind for both the trans/diff right? I mean you don't use two different gear oils do you?

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 17, 2017 10:14AM

Just one... why the importance of GL-4. The have lube transfer holes.... but so small you need to fill each separately..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Date: April 17, 2017 10:41AM

RedLine website certainly does create confusion.
Not sure why they give so little info about their products and then become very specific with the warning about the hypoid gear applications on the MT-90 among others, then they confuse the buyer with the same warning on the so-called "Lightweight ShockProof" gear lube which is not assigned an alpha-numeric label, as far as I can see.
IMHO, not a good indication of high confidence company...

Anyway, Richard Widman aka Richard1 on this forum is a well known expert on lubes, oils and grease because that is his business.
Furthermore, he is a Corvair owner - but also lives in South America and has the only running, driving Corvair in Bolivia!
Needless to say, if he spends the time to tell us the importance of using the correct gear lube in the manual trans-axle it would be worthwhile to take the time to understand why he says what to use.

If Richards transaxle failed, he has a much bigger problem getting another or getting the parts to repair his!~!
It hasn't failed, 'cause he knows what to use!!


Dan Davis - Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ 65 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn (my current driver!!)
~ 1964 Monza 'Vert ~ 65 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black int ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4
1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: 1STLM ()
Date: April 17, 2017 11:26AM

I used Amsoil GL-4 synthetic in my 66 4spd/diff. When it gets hot there tends to be some grinding going from 3 - 4 and 4 - 3. I have read here that Amsoil can be too slippery. I am wondering if this Red Line would be a better alternative.

Brice

66 Corsa Turbo Convertible

Bozeman, Montana

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: April 17, 2017 12:44PM

1STLM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used Amsoil GL-4 synthetic in my 66 4spd/diff.
> When it gets hot there tends to be some grinding
> going from 3 - 4 and 4 - 3. I have read here that
> Amsoil can be too slippery. I am wondering if
> this Red Line would be a better alternative.

I know of one person using the Red Line 75W90 NS GL-5 Gear Oil and he if he rushes the 3-4 shift the synchro doesn't work - grinding. Of course to be fair he drives the car aggresively so the problem might be the result of hard use.

I drive my old Corvairs easy, rebuilt transaxles - Sta Lube 85W90 GL-4. Yes the viscosity should be less, but it's available and after the gear box warms up it shifts easy. No synchro issues, cold or hot, just a stiff shifter below 50F and I rarely drive my old Vairs on cool days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 12:45PM by 66vairman.

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Re: Gear Oil Confussion
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: April 18, 2017 04:26PM

Unfortunately, as I even mention in my paper on the subject of these transmissions and oils, Redline does not produce a lot of coordinated information. It reminds me of once when I answered a question about Shell motor oils on a forum and the confusion about their different claims. A few weeks later I got a message from them (Shell) thanking me for pointing this out.

I can't relate 100% to any of the Redline products as they are not in this market, and in any event, when I need a specific product, I have it made.

The Corvair Transaxle was not designed to need GL-5 with its standard engine. Put a huge engine in it and you might need to rethink things. But when you have the PG, you might as well put the GL-5 into it.

One of the worst things for the differential is dirt or water ingress, and not getting out the contaminated oil, then letting the little sounds from wear continue until they are big.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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