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front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: zachness ()
Date: March 25, 2017 06:23PM

if i replace my front wheel bearings, do i need to replace the races, too? how would i get them out of the hub? i'm getting ready to take the bearings apart, re-pack, them and replace the seal, and considering just replacing the bearings while i'm at it.

Detroit, Michigan
former Corvairs:
1964 500 2dr (my first car, i bought it for $1!!!)
1965 Corsa turbo vert
presently:
65 Monza 4 door daily driver (parked for the winter)
winter beater - 2000 Ford Windstar

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: March 25, 2017 06:43PM

It is a good idea to replace the races if you are going to replace the bearings. The races are an interference fit- I used a slide hammer to get
the races out.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: March 25, 2017 06:45PM

Look inside the hub's hole....

you'll see reliefs

use a punch to knock them out





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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: March 26, 2017 05:46AM

Yep just look for the little reliefs, this is another place I use a brass punch. Not because I'm going to re-use the race, but so I don't mar anything else. You will also need new seals.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: March 26, 2017 07:23AM

Here is something to think about.....

Remove the existing wheel bearings, clean them real good and closely inspect them.
If there are no imperfections or wear marks on the bearing rollers or the race, my suggestion would be to re-pack the old ones and reinstall them.

Prior to repacking the bearings, make sure they are completely clean and DRY. New grease seals will be needed in either case.

My logic is the bearings that have been in the car for years are more than likely a much better quality than anything that is available in today's market and would likely outlast the new ones if properly lubricated and adjusted.

If even one roller in the bearing shows signs of pitting or other damage, it is recommended to replace both the bearing and race.

Once the bearings (New or Used) are re-installed and adjusted, give serious consideration to checking the adjustment after driving the car a few miles.

Even if this is the only time you anticipate packing new bearings, or re-packing the old ones, it might be a good idea to purchase one of those bearing packing tools instead of packing them by hand.

If you are inexperienced at packing bearings, the tool will significantly increase the chances of properly packed bearings. JMO

1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: March 27, 2017 08:24AM

AH, but then he won't have greasy hands!

I do agree, if the old grease does not show sings of being "metallic" and the rollers and races have no damage (look online for pictures of bearing failure modes), repack the existing bearings.

Replacing them just to do it wastes money and can result in a repair with a shorter lifetime.

Also, keep the bearing cones (the roller part of a Timken (T) bearing) with the same bearing cup (the race part of a Timken (T) bearing), as they have worn together over the years. Mixing used cups and cones can lead to bearing failure.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: zachness ()
Date: March 27, 2017 08:54AM

the whole reason i'm looking at this situation is this: the car has been parked for the winter (outside on pavement), i started it up every week or two, but didn't drive it all winter. i took it for the first short drive of spring, and the brakes were pulling sharply to the right. i took off the wheel and brake drum on the left front, and found that the brake shoes and drum were greasy, and the bearing seems loose. kind of a mystery, as everything was working fine last fall. i'm figuring on replacing the seal, and re-packing it, but i wonder if there's a problem with the bearing. i'll be taking it apart in the next couple of days, and examining the bearings. just seems kinda strange the the grease ran down onto the shoes and such during the winter - seems like the grease would be too thick to run down like that.

Detroit, Michigan
former Corvairs:
1964 500 2dr (my first car, i bought it for $1!!!)
1965 Corsa turbo vert
presently:
65 Monza 4 door daily driver (parked for the winter)
winter beater - 2000 Ford Windstar

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Date: March 27, 2017 09:29AM

Yeah, no way wheel bearing grease is going to run like that.
More likely leaky wheel cylinder?
Time to take the entire assembly down to the backing plate and check out everything.


Dan Davis - Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ 65 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn (my current driver!!)
~ 1964 Monza 'Vert ~ 65 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black int ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4
1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: zachness ()
Date: March 27, 2017 09:35AM

it was definitely grease. i carefully checked the cylinder for leakage, it's fine. i'm thinking that the bearing may have been loose before, but the grease hadn't worked it's way to the brakes yet, and over the winter, it gradually crept downward.

Detroit, Michigan
former Corvairs:
1964 500 2dr (my first car, i bought it for $1!!!)
1965 Corsa turbo vert
presently:
65 Monza 4 door daily driver (parked for the winter)
winter beater - 2000 Ford Windstar

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: March 27, 2017 12:17PM

Any chance you have DOT 5 silicon brake fluid. While I really like this stuff I have seen where a slow leak, as in over the winter will leave a substance that looks like clear silicon grease, but not like wheel bearing grease. A few years ago GM had a special HD DOT 3 synthetic fluid that was not supposed to absorb moisture. Well it did! Anyway that stuff will also leave a greasy film where it dries.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: March 27, 2017 08:34PM

Once you remove both the inner and outer bearing races, clean them up, and take them over to your grinder. Grind the outer edge of the old race enough that it is loose in the hub. Then use the old race as a driver to seat the new race. I have at least one of each size wheel bearing in my tool box, since I saved them after I ground them down. Best race installers that I have ever used. Learned that trick about 60 years ago, from an old time mechanic. Also learned that it was not good to pack the inside of the hub full of grease, since when it got hot and melted, it would push against the seal, causing grease on your brake shoes. He said that if you pack the bearings correctly, they will have plenty of grease on them, and to check them every 10,000 miles. You can still purchase good quality bearings from industrial bearing supply outlets, or search for NOS bearings at swap meets.

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: TomW ()
Date: March 28, 2017 03:01PM

When you install the old (or new) Wheel bearings and adjust them, be SURE to leave a little "play" in the bearing. The hub should move slightly in and out. If you adjust the bearing too tight, the bearings will destroy themselves in 100 miles! DAMHIK.

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: stiffneck ()
Date: April 20, 2017 05:50AM

I will be taking a look at my wheel bearings this weekend. I don't notice a problem but I have only just purchased the car and want my trip up to 1dayavair up in Rainbow CA nice and smooth.

I might need that tool for packing the bearings down the line but I still like greasy hands. Packing bearings is a ZEN experience.

1963 VW Ragtop Bug 40hp
1964 Corvair 900 Vert 140hp
1966 Corvair 4-door 110hp

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: April 20, 2017 07:01AM

Sounds like the grease it had was not wheel bearing grease. Many greases will not hold up to wheel bearing temperatures, especially if you have a lot of stops or the brakes drag or get stuck. Look for LB-GC on the label. The GC means it is for bearings.

Or it had too much grease, so there was heat from churning, and the expansion pushed it out.

Or it had a mixture of greases that were not compatible.


As for the bearings, always replace race with bearing, but look very closely at those bearings and races before installing. A magnifying glass or picture up close helps.

These were my rear bearings


you can see the fretting on the raceways


Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
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How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: April 20, 2017 09:29AM

All this sounds like a leaky grease seal. Either way, your tearing it all down to the backing plate so might as well do it right. I am of the old bearings school. If they are not damaged when you inspect them, clean and reuse them. As far as I know, there are no bearings made in the US anymore. Timken used to be the top name but as I understand it, even they are made overseas now. The quality of the steel used to be very good. Not so sure about today. Just think, if they are still good after decades of use, they are probably very good steel.

One note, be careful about cleaning them in a solvent tank. Unless you have a way to insure that all the solvent is removed, it will just break down the grease. When I was a brake & front end mechanic in the 70's, my mentor would clean them in solvent and blow them out using HP air. Made an interesting sound, until one blew up and filled the shop with shrapnel. Anyway, You can get them cleaned out by driving new grease through them a few times until it come out clean. A cheap packing tool works well. Also, buy good but compatible grease unless you go down to bare metal and new bearings.

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: April 20, 2017 07:53PM

I am in agreement with all of these posts. But use safety glasses (if hammering) and wear latex gloves. I have been a professional full time auto mechanic since 1981 and I can't stand having dirty filthy greasy hands. YMMV.

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: jmaechtlen ()
Date: April 20, 2017 09:10PM

it's fine to dry the bearings with compressed air, but don't use it to spin them - they aren't rated for a zillion rpm.
Also, if the solvent is combustible, you probably don't want a finely atomized air-solvent (air-fuel!) mixture in your shop!

Unless the grease seal is damaged or has been leaking, I reuse it too!

Jay Maechtlen
El Monte, Ca
Yes, it started out in life as a 61 2door.
It has a custom fiberglass skin, and a transverse 3.8 Buick.


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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: April 21, 2017 08:24AM

BobV66Vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All this sounds like a leaky grease seal. Either
> way, your tearing it all down to the backing plate
> so might as well do it right. I am of the old
> bearings school. If they are not damaged when you
> inspect them, clean and reuse them. As far as I
> know, there are no bearings made in the US
> anymore. Timken used to be the top name but as I
> understand it, even they are made overseas now.
> The quality of the steel used to be very good. Not
> so sure about today. Just think, if they are still
> good after decades of use, they are probably very
> good steel.
>
> One note, be careful about cleaning them in a
> solvent tank. Unless you have a way to insure that
> all the solvent is removed, it will just break
> down the grease. When I was a brake & front end
> mechanic in the 70's, my mentor would clean them
> in solvent and blow them out using HP air. Made an
> interesting sound, until one blew up and filled
> the shop with shrapnel. Anyway, You can get them
> cleaned out by driving new grease through them a
> few times until it come out clean. A cheap packing
> tool works well. Also, buy good but compatible
> grease unless you go down to bare metal and new
> bearings.

All the Timken bearing employees in my town would be shocked to know they don't work in the US any more. Bearings are better now than they have ever been because of import quality. Timken bearings were junk until the Japanese came along and has caused a quality revolution in the industry. Timken now makes bearings here in S.C for many Japanese makes.

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: April 21, 2017 08:55AM

Tapered roller bearings are rated (I am sure) for a "zillion" rpms. Just not while dry of grease. I don't use solvent and compressed air to clean. More like clean rags and a good high quality (low cost) grease packer. When I push the grease in always a small glob of dirty grease comes out first which is then discarded with a paper towel. Will this topic hit 2 pages? 3? Oh if replacing bearings always replace the races. Always.

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Re: front wheel bearing questions
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: April 21, 2017 09:21AM

Back in 2010, I cleaned the bearings on my Monza with gasoline to cut the heavy grease. A followup cleaning with mineral spirits ensure all dirty grease was removed. Low air pressure dried, then an inspection to determine serviceability. I use a bearing greasing tool, but confirm proper greasing by a palm greasing application. Did all front hub bearings on the Monza this way, plus a set up hubs as spares.

Had to redo the project when I upgraded to disc brakes and spare set of hubs were machined for the disc and 1/2 studs installed. The first set of hubs I did will move over to the Corsa. A spare set for the upgraded Monza hubs was also done.

Lots of greasing.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe, 180 hp 4 Spd
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2015 GMC Sierra SLT Crew Cab
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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