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Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 12, 2017 06:45PM

The photos below are what I think is the original generator off my 1964 Spyder. The car was built in the 3rd week of September 1963 and like many early build 1964's it has several 1963 style parts.

This generator is dated 3J-5 which would mean it was built on 9/5/1963, which would be a logical build date to correspond to my car.

The interesting part is that it has a 1964 part number (1102336) but it has the terminals pointing up. The references that I have seen state that all 1964 generators had the terminals pointing back (likely a cost savings effort as GM noted they could use this terminal configuration on all Corvair cars, trucks, vans, etc).

I have seen part numbers listed for the end frames but don't see stampings on either end frame w/ part numbers (are they on the inside??).

Also note that on the pulley end frame the oil port is upwards as in earlier years, not towards the back as in the typical 1964 or rear terminal generators. Assuming this is the correct pulley end frame. ???

My goal here is to determine 1.) Is this in fact likely the configuration that came from the factory (rare 1964 generator with terminals pointing up) and 2.) Are the end frames correct for this generator.

I am aware that the pulley and fan are incorrect.

Any help/knowledge is appreciated...my plan is to have a custom made replacement generator tag made (to match these numbers) then rebuild this generator as original.

Thanks!









Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2017 06:50PM by Nickshu.

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 12, 2017 07:15PM

Here's a pic of the drive/pulley end frame with the pulley off:



Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: March 12, 2017 07:23PM

There is a slightly smaller version of the 1964 drive end frame that was used on the 1962 Spyders, and I believe, but not certain of, the 1963 Spyder. It is entirely possible that either or both end frames were broken at one time, and replaced with current production. I have a slew of NOS drive and end frames, so I will check my books to see what the correct numbers will be. Pointing the terminals up or to the rear, is a matter of "clocking" and where the locater pin is in relationship to the generator main case.
Junk

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: DAVECS1 ()
Date: March 12, 2017 07:28PM

That looks wxactly like the generator that came off my 64. I can take pictures if you would like?

1964 Monza Convertible
110 4 speed
Peoria, IL

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 12, 2017 07:38PM

DaveCS1 - That would be great if you have photos. Include the tag.

Junkman - Yes with the right combination of end frames you can clock the terminals either way. The really interesting thing is the position of the Delco tag (which appears to have original numbers on it)...On the rear terminal generators this tag is located directly across from the upper terminal. On this generator the tag is in the center between the two terminals...if you clocked the housing to a rear terminal position this tag would be turned downwards and to the rear of the car (unreadable in the engine bay). This makes me think this housing was made to be facing upwards. Or another possibility is the early batch of the 35 amp '64 generators used the older '63 housings and they had not yet reclocked the tag location to what is seen in later '64 generators. Just an idea??

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 12, 2017 07:42PM

Here...note the position of the tag on this Clarks' rebuilt 1964 style generator I have been running on the car. About 2" further upwards to compensate for clocking the terminals to the rear....interesting.??



Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: March 12, 2017 08:34PM

1. 64 generators had the terminals up except maybe the FC models.

2. For oil to flow down by gravity to the bearings, the oil cup has to be above the bearing. I have seen some generators where the pulley end oil cup was about 45° towards the rear of the car.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 12, 2017 08:51PM

Frank DuVal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. 64 generators had the terminals up except maybe
> the FC models.
>
> 2. For oil to flow down by gravity to the
> bearings, the oil cup has to be above the bearing.
> I have seen some generators where the pulley end
> oil cup was about 45° towards the rear of the
> car.

Frank I am not sure you are correct on the terminals. Here is one reference on the subject: [murfy.us]

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: March 13, 2017 05:54AM

The generator drive pulley is not 64. All except the VERY early 64's had the belt shield. And I'm not positive about the time frame on the belt shield, it may have been from the first day of 64 production.

It also looks like you have a cast iron DE frame, that is from the FC's generally.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: March 13, 2017 06:10AM

Clarks might be drilling new holes for the tags, since the rivets don't always come out to reuse the original holes.

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 13, 2017 06:24AM

vairmech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The generator drive pulley is not 64. All except
> the VERY early 64's had the belt shield. And I'm
> not positive about the time frame on the belt
> shield, it may have been from the first day of 64
> production.
>
> It also looks like you have a cast iron DE frame,
> that is from the FC's generally.

I agree it looks like the end frames may have been changed, the housing could have been reclocked to match since the commutator end (rear) frame allows both positions. But given the stamping date code the housing may well be original to the car.

I know the pulley is wrong for sure, further confirming it's been worked on and parts mis-matched.

At this point maybe I'll just get a custom tag printed to match the date code, then install it on the Clarks rebuilt generator I am running now.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: caroseiii ()
Date: March 13, 2017 10:12AM

Unfortunately, wrong, there was no changeover in late 63 as this was new for 64. What you have is merely cobbled together from leftover battered parts and spray painted, which is the first clue. Check the parts and accessories catalog for the correct end frame 1951438. Correct rear frame and wrong front frame. 1964 is rated at 35 amps and had special end frames to rotate the studs 90 degrees and the larger front frame permits use of a larger fan for additional cooling. Wrong fan as noted above. This is not correct for any 64 application but I assume it works. If you are looking for the correct parts new see [www.ebay.com]
Plenty of us folks on the forum have these used for sale.
Crawford

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 13, 2017 10:29AM

caroseiii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, wrong, there was no changeover in
> late 63 as this was new for 64. What you have is
> merely cobbled together from leftover battered
> parts and spray painted, which is the first clue.
> Check the parts and accessories catalog for the
> correct end frame 1951438. Correct rear frame and
> wrong front frame. 1964 is rated at 35 amps and
> had special end frames to rotate the studs 90
> degrees and the larger front frame permits use of
> a larger fan for additional cooling. Wrong fan as
> noted above. This is not correct for any 64
> application but I assume it works. If you are
> looking for the correct parts new see
> [www.ebay.com]
> RK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
> Plenty of us folks on the forum have these used
> for sale.
> Crawford


Thanks Crawford that's exactly the info I was looking for. Then the rebuilt Clarks generator I have would be correct for '64 with the correct end frames. The only stupid thing is Clark's repro tags has a 1964 part number...but a 1962 build date!!! I ordered a new stamped tag with the correct number and build date and will apply it to the Clarks rebuilt one and be all set!

I do still think based on the dates the original tag/housing on the old generator is original to my car. Everything else had been changed during repairs over the years as you pointed out. The rear (commutator) frame appears a correct 4 bolt but is cast iron instead of aluminum it looks like there. Crazy cobbled together.

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: March 13, 2017 10:36AM

Generator commutator end frame is correct:

Chet in Ramona

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Date: March 13, 2017 11:57AM

Here is a photo from the 1964 supplement

OOPS! Just looked at the photo closer!
That fan is not a 1964 magnesium fan! Chevrolet used an older photo!


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2017 11:59AM by 1966-Corsa-GT-180.

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: March 13, 2017 12:31PM

1966-Corsa-GT-180 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a photo from the 1964 supplement
>
> OOPS! Just looked at the photo closer!
> That fan is not a 1964 magnesium fan! Chevrolet
> used an older photo!

Lol...I found another reference, Volume 2 of the CORSA Technical Guide there is an article about generator identification. This article also states that all 1964 generators had the terminals pointing back, not on top. Additionally all 1964 generators were 35 amp and all the same on all Corvair cars/trucks (except for the ultra rare low-speed cut in generator that was an option on trucks).

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/US Navy Veteran
Other cars: 2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2; Boring daily drivers; 2005 Lotus Elise supercharged (SOLD); 1982 Porsche 911SC (SOLD)
Northern Colorado, USA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2017 12:32PM by Nickshu.

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: March 13, 2017 12:44PM

I wouldn't trust the photo. It could be a stock photo used for belt checking. Just as you noticed, Dan.

Al Lane
Ellabell GA

1966 Monza Coupe, 110 hp, 4 Spd
1966 Corsa Turbo Coupe, 180 hp 4 Spd
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe, 6 dr, 80 hp car engine, PG
2015 Chevrolet Malibu 2LT
2015 GMC Sierra SLT Crew Cab
1968 Camaro SS Coupe 350 CI 295+ HP PG
1947 Farmall A tractor 15 hp


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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: March 13, 2017 01:31PM

More information concerning generators, end frames, and pulley fans:

Chet in Ramona

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: March 13, 2017 01:49PM

More generator information:

It seems the large diameter fan was used on later '64 models only. There is a larger drive end frame that matches the oversized fan, but same as the fan, I do not have a part number for the large end frame. I do have a matching set somewhere in my shop.

Chet in Ramona

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Re: Interesting 1964 generator? Or Wrong? Confirmation needed.
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: March 13, 2017 01:52PM

Oops, wrong part number for fan in last photo. Supposed to be #3798280.

Chet in Ramona

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