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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 08, 2017 05:02AM

Is this engine for your car Jonathan?

Lee J

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Jonathan Knapp ()
Date: February 08, 2017 11:10PM

Lee _

Yes, it's for my autocrosser. I barely have time to work on my own stuff, let alone somebody else's!

Jonathan Knapp
Seattle, WA
'66 Corsa Autocrosser

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Jonathan Knapp ()
Date: February 08, 2017 11:25PM

Johnny -

I noticed on your post that you are thinking ahead to a supercharged engine. Which supercharger are you considering? I have some thoughts on that too and would like to compare notes.

There is the M90 Eaton, which is cheap and available, but not as efficient as the other options.

There's the Mercedes "32" AMG unit, which is high performing, but hard to find for sale separately.

There's the new Eaton TVS1320, which may have the highest efficiency of them all, but is very new, and as far as I can tell is not standard equipment on any car yet so it will be hard to find in wrecking yards.

What are your thoughts?

Jonathan Knapp
Seattle, WA
'66 Corsa Autocrosser

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 09, 2017 08:30AM

The only thing I can add is many of those superchargers are directional so in order to use them on a Corvair with the pulley pointing to the rear you would need come up with a way to change the rotational direction. Pointing to the front could be done with a jack shaft similar to the blowers sold for the LS V8's in the trucks.

Lee J

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: February 09, 2017 11:26AM

If you really want to spend some big bucks on S/C, theres always the
Whipple Super chargers: [whipplesuperchargers.com] I don't think you are going to find
a lot of these in the junk yard.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Vairismo ()
Date: February 09, 2017 12:49PM

Edelbrock also manufactures super chargers, saw this when we toured the facility.
They produce some for OEM's and market kits for some platforms. Might want to see what they have that may work.

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Jonathan Knapp ()
Date: February 09, 2017 08:06PM

On the Eaton M90 units you can flip the nose piece around so it drives the other vain and therefore it turns the other way (counterclockwise). It's not as simple as unbolting it and bolting it back on the other way. It takes some modifications, but it can be done.

Jonathan Knapp
Seattle, WA
'66 Corsa Autocrosser

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: February 09, 2017 09:08PM

The M90 is a not a very high output supercharger and to get it to flow 750 cfm means it has to be over spun (figure about 16,000 rpms) which also means the air charge temps start going through the roof.
To give you an idea.......an E Flow turbo is capable of 635 cfm.
If you are going to go to the trouble I would look for a blower that is capable of more cfm......an M112 off of a 99-04 Lightning or 03-04 Cobra start at 800 cfm at normal drive ratios which means the air charge temperatures aren't as high as they would be with an M90 being overspun. I would also consider doing a water to air inter cooler similar to what they used under the blower. It makes a HUGE difference in bringing the air charge temperatures down.
Thats is if you are stuck on used blowers.....there are all the new TVS blowers that are pretty amazing but most cost more than many people paid for their Corvairs!

Lee J

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Jonathan Knapp ()
Date: February 11, 2017 10:44PM

Today I put together the pistons (no rings), cylinders, head gaskets, heads and intake manifold for a mock-up in order to set the cam timing and check the piston to valve clearance. Here's what it looks like from a few different angles.

With the piston at TDC and the valve on its seat, there is .210" to .215" between the intake valve and the piston. On the exhaust side it is .270 to .278". That is measured with a dial indicator on the valve retainer as the valve is pushed open by my finger (see the weak valve springs for the mock-up).

With the piston at TDC the intake valve will be open .098". There's still .112" between the valve and the piston at that point. The question is whether the piston can get out of the way fast enough with the roller cam's aggressive lobe profile that open the valve faster than a flat tappet cam.

Once I get the cam timing set tomorrow, I will find out the answer to that question.


Jonathan Knapp
Seattle, WA
'66 Corsa Autocrosser

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 11, 2017 10:53PM

Looks like Horsepower!!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Max Roeder ()
Date: February 12, 2017 03:14AM

Jonathan Knapp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today I put together the pistons (no rings),
> cylinders, head gaskets, heads and intake manifold
> for a mock-up in order to set the cam timing and
> check the piston to valve clearance. Here's what
> it looks like from a few different angles.
>
> With the piston at TDC and the valve on its seat,
> there is .210" to .215" between the intake valve
> and the piston. On the exhaust side it is .270 to
> .278". That is measured with a dial indicator on
> the valve retainer as the valve is pushed open by
> my finger (see the weak valve springs for the
> mock-up).
>
> With the piston at TDC the intake valve will be
> open .098". There's still .112" between the valve
> and the piston at that point. The question is
> whether the piston can get out of the way fast
> enough with the roller cam's aggressive lobe
> profile that open the valve faster than a flat
> tappet cam.
>
> Once I get the cam timing set tomorrow, I will
> find out the answer to that question.
>
>
> Jonathan Knapp
> Seattle, WA
> '66 Corsa Autocrosser

Hello Jonathan,

As long as you follow the cam card specs provided by Ray you will have no problem (and your not one tooth off on your gear sync). The purpose of roller cam/ lifter is for faster action of the valves opening and closing when you want them to. Flat tappet's can't handle the rapid transition forces a roller can so the lobes of a flat tappet are not as fast to change their rate of lift.

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: ROD ()
Date: February 12, 2017 06:36AM

Looks sweet Jonathan ! I like your style GGG.....

What is that epoxy colored material used on the heads where the intake manifolds bolt on ?

Rod Tetrault
El Cajon , CA
65 Corsa Yenko Clone / 65 Corsa EO Creampuff Vert
66 Corsa "JIMISH" Mid engine Turbo LS1 currently 2nd fastest Corvair in the USA
Class 5 Corvair powered Baja
61 Vintage Rampy
Corvair powered Buggy x 3
Enough hidden parts to build a space ship

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Date: February 12, 2017 07:32PM

Jonathan Knapp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Johnny -
>
> I noticed on your post that you are thinking ahead
> to a supercharged engine. Which supercharger are
> you considering? I have some thoughts on that too
> and would like to compare notes.
>
> There is the M90 Eaton, which is cheap and
> available, but not as efficient as the other
> options.
>
> There's the Mercedes "32" AMG unit, which is high
> performing, but hard to find for sale separately.
>
> There's the new Eaton TVS1320, which may have the
> highest efficiency of them all, but is very new,
> and as far as I can tell is not standard equipment
> on any car yet so it will be hard to find in
> wrecking yards.
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Jonathan Knapp
> Seattle, WA
> '66 Corsa Autocrosser


Jonathon-

Nice parts and machine work! Looks well engineered.

As far as a S/C for my project goes, it will most likely be a supercharger from the Mercury 2.6L supercharged 4-valve outboard engine family, the "Verado". It utilizes what I believe is a 1.8L IHI screw charger, which is also the supplier for the Mercedes, but without the clutch, and oiling set up for the outboard. This compressor is available used on eBay, there were 8 units on there as I typed this ranging from $600-$900, with more expensive units as well.

Mercury pushes as much as 16 lbs of boost with them on the 2.6L 4-valve.

I would run a jackshaft similar to the Magnusson line of S/C's, and a separate serpentine pulley outside the accessory drive v-belt.

The other unit I would entertain is the 1.6L Whipple, but I'm planning on using a Verado IHI unit.

Good luck on this project, I'll be following along.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're unique, just like everyone else...

Johnny B
Central WI

Wife's '68, 3.0L, twin-screw compressor and fuel injected in the works...

Project Pressurized Pancake


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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: February 13, 2017 01:17PM

Where did you come up with the intakes? I've got that system on one of my Corvairs.

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 13, 2017 01:44PM

My dumb question for the day. How do the rockers get lubed if the lifters and push rods aren't spinning????

I was just in Seattle last week to ski with my son. Should have tried to get to see that that, impressive.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Jonathan Knapp ()
Date: February 13, 2017 08:51PM

Johnny -

It is my understanding that it is mostly the downward (inward) motion of the pushrod as the valve is closing that forces the oil upward (outward) in the hollow pushrod and out through the hole in the center of the tip and out through the oil hole in the side near the outer (upper) end. The oil pressure from the lifter just keeps the oil inside the pushrod from moving up and down (back and forth) with the pushrod. The lifter doesn't have to turn for oil to get up to the rocker arm. That said, the oil holes on the side of the pushrod should be aimed so that they squirt across at another rocker arm and valve and aimed down.

Here is the block with the degree wheel installed. It's a dual pattern cam with 248 degrees intake duration and 258 degrees exhaust duration at .050" lift. Intake lift is .470"; exhaust lift is .490".

Jonathan Knapp
Seattle, WA
'66 Corsa Autocrosser

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: Max Roeder ()
Date: February 14, 2017 04:44AM

Hey Jonathan, are you "PRO" enough to use that degree wheel?

As far as the question about the oiling of the roller rockers I believe I have seen a slo-mo video somewhere that shows push rods, springs, valves, ets all rotating under the changing loads of the valve train.

Here are a couple of images of roller rockers showing the internal oil porting to supply the tips and needle bearings with lube.

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: dryenko ()
Date: February 14, 2017 05:55AM

Looking great !!

Bob C aka Dryenko
Dobson, NC 27017

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: February 14, 2017 06:39AM

Very Cool

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Re: 3.1 Liter Going Together
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: February 14, 2017 08:43AM

Jonathan, that is a mechanic's work of art!eye popping smiley WOW is all I can say.smileys with beer

Just curious, what bank did you rob? It must be costing a king's fortune. Just wish I could afford such an engine for my project car. But as it is, it's costing me probably what you're spending on your fantastic engine. grinning smiley And I don't even have the engine paid for yet!

Lesson for the day:
Life is cheap. It's the accessories that'll kill you. eye rolling smiley

Best wishes,
-Mark

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