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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: croderique ()
Date: May 12, 2018 06:55PM

I looked up the Autozone 245 /246 brake shoes. They have the listing backward. I called the local store and they just read me the same specs as on their website. I asked the length of the primary and secondary and they didn't have a clue. 9.5" as on their website.

They say #245 is for LM Front brakes. The spec says they are 9.5" x 2". The LM front calls for 9.01" primary & 9.75"secondary x 2.5"wide as 66vairman says.
The Autozone #246 says they are for rears but at 9.5" x 2.5". The LM rear calls for 9.01" & 9.75" x 2" wide. Backwards.

For the people who have used Autozone brake shoes. Did you measure the length? Were they both 9.5" for primary and secondary? Were the #245 2" wide and the #246 2.5" wide?

I have sent an email to Cark's for their dimensions also and should hear back Monday.
Thanks
Chuck


Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: May 06, 2018 09:34AM

After Ken's original post I went looking and found the following:

a set of old riveted linings on LM shoes with 8" on leading shoe and 9" on trailing.

New bonded shoes with 10" on BOTH leading and trailing shoes.

Book says 9.01" on leading and 9.75" on trailing.

Obviously the contact area area affects the pedal pressure and no wonder so many folks are complaining.

Buckeye, AZ.
1966 Monza convertible 110 hp 4 speed Aztec Bronze with Bronze interior

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: May 12, 2018 08:35PM

Late Model Corvair:

246 is the rear shoes, 2 1/2" wide.

Both the 242 and 245 shoe can be used on the front, they are 2" wide.

9 1/2" is the diameter of the drum.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: May 13, 2018 08:46AM

The Autozone spec is drum brake shoe contact area stated as diameter vs. width. So it's correct.

My spec's were the for the lining length from the Corvair Chassis Shop Manual.

Two different things.

I have never seen parts places state the lining lengths. Ken (and myself) were talking about the lining lengths and the fact they vary. By design the leading or primary shoe should have a shorter lining.

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: croderique ()
Date: May 14, 2018 01:01PM

So, I got an e-mail back from Clark's. Their front brake shoes are 2.5" wide as called for. The Primary length vary based on vendor, but the ones in stock now are 8.5". The Secondary are 10.5". Again, the shop manual says they should be 2.5" wide, 9.01" on the primary and 9.75" secondary for the front brakes.

I ordered the AutoZone 246 which they list for the REAR brake drums. (Same as the Chevelle). They came in within hours and I went to check them out. It is the correct width 2.5" but the primary are 7.75" and the secondary 9.75". He looked them up and, yup, says they are for the Rear LM Corvair brakes. As did O'Reilly's and NAPA. BTW, the shop manual says the primary thickness should be .17" and the secondary .20". I could not measure the AutoZone but the primary were definitely thinner.

The ones I have on now are NAPA but the primary only measures 7.25" and the secondary 10", both 2.5" wide. It stops "tomorrow" and I would like for it to stop a little quicker. (I do have all new brake lines, dual master cylinder and new wheel cylinders)

So what to do? Since no vendor seems to have the correct length pads, and you can use the longer ones as primary, do I buy 2x AutoZone, only use the longer ones but cut down the primary to 9"? The secondary are 1/4" short though.
Or buy another set from NAPA and cut down the longer one to 9" and use as the primary, cut the current 10" secondary to 9.75" and turn back in for core value the shorter ones? (NAPA is the only vendor that requires a core). I'm concerned that I bought the current ones a few years ago and the compound may have changed, even though AutoZone and NAPA say they are "Low-Metallic Organic"

Or does the primary length really matter? I would think so but maybe not if everyone else are happy with the shorter length pads.

With the FLAPS having the shoes reversed, front to back, and shorter primary pad size no wonder many of the Corvair people complain about stopping power.

Thanks for letting me vent. Comments?
Chuck

Buckeye, AZ.
1966 Monza convertible 110 hp 4 speed Aztec Bronze with Bronze interior

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 14, 2018 02:36PM

It has more to do with the lining compound than the size. Cheap soft ones will stop much better. Mine is very easy to stop at any speed. If you buy the long warrantee harder shoes they will take longer to seat and always require more peddle pressure.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: May 14, 2018 02:41PM

2X what jjohnsonjo said.

'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: May 14, 2018 02:59PM

Brake design is complex. That said J.O. is correct. The lining friction coefficient makes a noticeable difference. So long life, or "Lifetime Warranty" lining material is harder so it lasts longer and results in higher the pedal pressure. Folks here tend to list the shoes that are softer for lower pedal pressure.

The problem is the manufactures tend to change lining material depending on the best deal they get. So one year a certain brand seems find, then next year it's not. However the cheaper shoes do tend to be softer, but no guarantee.

I'm lucky. A few car clubs use a truck brake vendor in L.A. who has a soft lining material he orders special. However after I gave them the specs for lining length they came back all the same size and too long. So I got out the hack saw and chisel. Such is the way of keeping an old car going. At least they arc the shoes to each drum which is a plus.

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 14, 2018 04:03PM

Had the issue on my Honda 500 thumper. Front shoes were wearing, so I got some after market, could find Honda OEM. It was terrible on stopping. My answer was to use the old linings and add shims to the pivot point to act like a drum adjuster. Short time to reseat and Wa La, glad I don't throw stuff away.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: May 16, 2018 08:09AM

Keeping in mind that Jack, the OP was asking about FC brake shoes.
I have had more issues with cheap FC brake shoes, than I have ever had with Car brake shoes.
The larger FC drum and shoe seem to have the issues. At least in my experience.
I recently threw away 3 complete 4 wheel sets cheap of Auto Zone shoes for FC's. All had less than 100 miles. Too bad, they had lifetime warrantees! But they were unusable.

Corventure Dave

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: May 16, 2018 09:22AM

corventure Dave Wrote:
> I recently threw away 3 complete 4 wheel sets
> cheap of Auto Zone shoes for FC's. All had less
> than 100 miles. Too bad, they had lifetime
> warrantees! But they were unusable.
>
> Corventure Dave

Ok. Would you share what your issues were?

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: May 16, 2018 09:50AM

Quote
Chuck
With the FLAPS having the shoes reversed, front to back, and shorter primary pad size no wonder many of the Corvair people complain about stopping power.

I just checked Roak Auto and Advance (I cannot access Autozone on this computerconfused smiley) and both list the correct brake shoe numbers for the correct axle position of the shoes.

Quote
I said above:
Late Model Corvair:

246 is the rear shoes, 2 1/2" wide.

Both the 242 and 245 shoe can be used on the front, they are 2" wide.

9 1/2" is the diameter of the drum.

The 246 IS for the rear of a late model Corvair and IS 2 1/2" wide.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: May 17, 2018 07:43AM

Wagon Master Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> corventure Dave Wrote:
> > I recently threw away 3 complete 4 wheel sets
> > cheap of Auto Zone shoes for FC's. All had less
> > than 100 miles. Too bad, they had lifetime
> > warrantees! But they were unusable.
> >
> > Corventure Dave
>
> Ok. Would you share what your issues were?



Gladly,
Check my previous reply here. #12 on page 1.
smileys with beer

Corventure Dave

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 17, 2018 07:47AM

CDave... What color were the linings?





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: May 17, 2018 02:05PM

The linings were a light Brown like color. Bonded.

Corventure Dave

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: croderique ()
Date: May 17, 2018 03:19PM

Frank, thanks. What manual are you seeing the 2.5" wide shoes are for the rear? Can you attach a copy of that page?

Attached is out of the 1965 Shop Manual. It says 2.5" wide are for the front on a LM.
Thanks
Chuck

Quote
Chuck, With the FLAPS having the shoes reversed, front to back, and shorter primary pad size no wonder many of the Corvair people complain about stopping power.

I just checked Roak Auto and Advance (I cannot access Autozone on this computerconfused smiley) and both list the correct brake shoe numbers for the correct axle position of the shoes.

Quote
I said above:
Late Model Corvair:

246 is the rear shoes, 2 1/2" wide.

Both the 242 and 245 shoe can be used on the front, they are 2" wide.

9 1/2" is the diameter of the drum.

The 246 IS for the rear of a late model Corvair and IS 2 1/2" wide.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

Buckeye, AZ.
1966 Monza convertible 110 hp 4 speed Aztec Bronze with Bronze interior

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 17, 2018 04:14PM

So....bottom line.... if you are STUCK with incorrect shoes....

Make sure the leading shoe is 3/4" shorter than the one in the rear...easy to do on Bonded.... never measured a riveted shoe for distance from rivets..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: May 17, 2018 05:39PM

corventure Dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The linings were a light Brown like color.
> Bonded.
>
> Corventure Dave

Re: EM best brake shoe brands HELP???
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: April 09, 2014 11:47AM

I have posted several places about this. I have found that the Advance auto shoe works very well. When you go there open the box and make sure they have a black sintered look to them. These are a carbon metalic and seat quickly and stop with light pressure.

I guess I too have returned a few sets of Advance Auto shoes too, but mine never left the counter. You order them and the next day when they come in you open the box. Anything but dark gray and back they go. Only get the bad ones about 1 out of 5 times.

'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: May 17, 2018 08:44PM

Ah Ha! I did not look the width up in the shop manual. Well, I actually got the 2 and 2.5" from 40 years of working on them. grinning smiley

Yes, the shop manuals have errors. Here is a list, line 79 addresses the reversed numbers for rear brake width.

[autoxer.skiblack.com]

I think this is also in the FAQs on this site.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: croderique ()
Date: May 18, 2018 09:26PM

Wow. Just Wow. Brake shoes are 2" wide front and 2.5" wide on the rear. Just the opposite of the Shop Manuals. Was it ever corrected in the shop manuals in later years? My 1966 supplement says "Brakes: No Change" in the index page. I can't imagine going from 2.5" in the front to 2" as it stops terrible now with 2.5".

If true, Matt, this should be a separate line in the FAQ's.

I'm stopping all work on the brakes until I can get my head around this.

Thanks, I think.
Chuck

Buckeye, AZ.
1966 Monza convertible 110 hp 4 speed Aztec Bronze with Bronze interior

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Re: Brake Shoe Recommendations
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 18, 2018 10:49PM

The errors in manuals is in our FAQ's

I changed the Graphic post in this topic to be correct!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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